This is interesting stuff. I expect my trips will be 90% road based, with the occasional gravel path in places where paved roads don't exist. I have no inclination to ride through deserts, but I just wanted a predominantly road touring bike that wouldn't curl up into a ball and cry every time it saw a slightly muddy puddle!

Therefore a big 1000cc+ adventure bike seemed like a good 90/10 balance for me. But if the expert view (because I concede that you guys all have way more expertise in these matters than me) is that something like a 1200GS is no better off road than a Goldwing then maybe I need to reconsider my options.

Hey, maybe I'll just take my 1400cc Moto Guzzi cruiser around the world!

I avoided doing that because it would only be a personal opinion, in this case about a bike that is not quite available as yet.

On balance, it sounds like you are aiming to ride on asphalt and there is plenty of that on this planet nowadays.
There is no need to go "off road" - however that is defined and for which there is a disproportionate amount of discussion within the HUBB - unless you really want to do exactly that.

Nor have you mentioned what tyres/tires you would use for your proposed trip; they make a difference, whether fitted to a GS, or a Wing, or the MG cruiser.

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Dave

If the 1400 Guzzi is a known quantity to you in terms of riding it and fixing it, it seems a good choice to me.

On a section of bad track it might be one of the first to turn back, but you will at least know this if you have experience of it.

I rode in Morocco with a chap on a R1150GS. His entire preparation was to buy the bike. No off road training, no tyres, no idea where the battery was to find out why the ABS light was on. His previous bike was a 250 Honda just the ones local teenagers were buzzing over the tracks that had him falling off every 50 yards and picking up his 3/4 tonner, but hey, Chris Scott told him to do it in the chapter he'd read (he says ducking for cover, tongue firmly in cheek).

Andy

Oh, I know... I totally get that no-one can give me an AT review here, unless any of your happened to be at the press launch?? As I said up front, I realize this is a largely theoretical exercise at the moment, which is partly why I refocused my question to a more general "is there any point to 1000cc adventure bikes?" type thing...

My plans are probably slightly more nuanced than 100% road riding. I know you can ride most of the way around the world on asphalt these days, and for the main that's what I'd be doing. But I'd also like the ability to be able to do a little riding on unpaved stretches too. You know, when the cute girl at the bar says "sure, come back to mine tonight... my town is 5 miles up a gravel track though, that's cool right?" I want to say yes rather than spend the night alone with just my imagination

I did ride along some pretty washboarded gravel roads on my Guzzi cruiser when I did Route 66 this year (wanted to stay as close to the original route as possible for no logical reason!) and must say I found the whole thing bloody uncomfortable. There's very little suspension travel, plus it's a feet forward riding position so I couldn't stand up. I had a real sense of "I'd be enjoying this more on something like an R1200GS" which is why I was playing around with the idea of big adventure bikes for future trips.

As for tires, it would probably vary depending on where I was in the world at the time. I expect something like Heidenau K60s most of the time... also depends on what's available for the bike I pick.

First of all, like others said, take the bike you prefer. And then maybe choose the roads for it . I like guzzis a lot but I wont go RTW with for mechanical problems reasons ( serious and documented ones you may find on fora of aficions here in France and Italy )
A honda will do this job for sure , a bmw also ( an old one not sure for the "water" 1250) or wahtever , a SV, DL ...
90 % and 10 % well well , some 1% could be impossible to cross withe these heavy "trailies" . i can give examples .
And there are some other occasions, except if you are really trained or/and very strong , like going on a little boat, pussing the bike up after falling 10 times and so on .
anyway wait for the tests .

You say you don't want to go off road, but I have seen a few loaded bikes really struggle crossing a dew soaked grass campsite. Throw in a few undulations and a slope and it can get hard work. My Enfield will chug pretty much anywhere and has a very small turning circle.
there are places where it would eat my Triumph 3 cylinder.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice. I've ridden/toured a Super-ten, and didn't like it. I've tried others, but have always came back to- the cost of the bike don't justify the but I'd be getting extra above what already have. I have an RD07 Africa Twin, and love it. If the new AT handles anything like the old one, it'll be the one for me.

SO: ride them, and buy the one you like the most. The money you save because of 'deals' offered mean nothing if you're not enjoying the ride.

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Squily

Good advice my friend. Others in the thread have said this too.

Ultimately with bike purchases, it comes down to what the heart wants, right? When I bought my Moto Guzzi California 1400 Custom there weren't many people telling me it's the most sensible bike in the work to buy. But I couldn't get the damned thing out of my mind since I saw one riding around Lake Como when I was on a riding trip in Italy. So, screw common sense, I bought it. Still get a buzz every time that V-twin fires up. Why? Don't know, I just do.

Still, there's no harm in a little "what does this bike offer that this other bike doesn't?" chatter. It's just passing the time until I get to ride one I guess.

Though really, having started the thread being skeptical of the AT, I'm now realizing that there's something I can't put my finger on about it that makes me want it. So helping me realize I have a bit of a lust over the bike, even though I can't explain logically why has been a useful exercise! lol

You know, it's a shame you can't test ride bikes off road. I mean, I guess you could if the dealer was near a trail... By who wants to risk dropping a test ride bike?

Guzzi guy?
Check out this review that includes the Moto Guzzi NTX 1200 Stelvio:

Adventure Bike Comparison Review- Off-Road Motorcycling: Ducati Multistrada S Touring vs. Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 NTX vs. Triumph Tiger Explorer vs. Yamaha Super Ténéré

Check out the video offered for quick summation and good insight into the dirt road capabilities of the 4 bikes in the comparo.
In the end, I'd bet the new Africa Twin would be better off road than all the above bikes ... but won't come close in overall ability.

that's why it is an expensive sport, you buy blindly relying on others opinions and then selling soon just after because it was not it...

about testing
There had been the same test in Moto magazine ( magazine of a mutual insurance compagny ) two years ago wth the same kind of bike , big "trailies " over 1000 cc and 230 kg .
They had been to Morocco on roads ; with at least two pilots of enduro and ex-Dakar, they tried once to take a piste ,
the two guys said it was not the kind of bike for it
this vid might give an idea both

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvk...ierre-goy_auto
what a pro can do ( the guy is also a stuntman on films ( skyfall, jason bourne ... before he was a world trial champion)
imagine what is possible for a "regularr" rider
nb : the tracks are very easy compared to morocco, some north spain or else and SHORT .
*** the guy said several times : "it is very physical after 10 minutes "

That small bespoke manufacturer CCM do an amount of off asphalt test riding with their fleet of test bikes - so it has been reported.

Correct though, I don't think the big manufs or dealers for that matter are going to go that extra mile (every pun intended)..

But, what happened to this thread? It's about a brand new model of Honda bike that is sure to sell in droves and it turns up in the pub??

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Dave

Haha... well, to bring the thread back on topic, I'm really starting to come around to the idea of the Africa Twin (pending test ride of course). All the reviews that are coming out say that the DCT (automatic) transmission is a revelation for off-road riding.

Once again - and I cannot stress this enough - I KNOW the bike isn't going to get through a desert, or along the BAM, or through the Amazon in rainy season. But for the blend of high-mileage road days plus a little unpaved roads where the pavement runs out that I'm after, it seems ideal.

My initial preference of a Super Tenere over the bike has lessened a lot the more I read about the DCT transmission. I suppose you could argue that just adds complexity, and who is going to be able to fix a DCT transmission in the middle of Africa. But Honda have a pretty good reputation for reliability so I'm probably prepared to take that risk.

After reading some of the LONG thread over on ADV Rider, I'm now even more convinced this Honda will be a BIG SELLER. It's a Better Tenere' 1200, a less expensive KTM 1290 (or whatever) or GS1200, and for now will bring in LOTS of riders, IMHO. NOTE: "for now"

Until Yamaha come forward with either a real ADV/TRAVEL/Dakar/Starbucks version of either their FZ-09 or FZ- 07 ... Honda will be out front with the AT. If Honda can keep the price low enough it should sell by the thousands. But if Yamaha do it right ... watch out Honda san.

The other bike that could sink the new Africa Twin before it gets started is an 800 KTM P-Twin that is reported to be "in the wings", ready for release. If truly lighter weight and reliable ... (always a BIG IF with KTM) ... then could also be a big winner for the Orange guys and really hurt Big Red. KTM's just keep getting BETTER, smoother, faster ... and sadly, really expensive!

I've now seen many of the videos showing the AT going off road and I'm not impressed. I see the thing swapping ends side to side and wallowing just like the 550 lbs. Pig that it is. But those were semi harsh conditions and most will never go there.

As an easy going dirt/gravel road bike and real travel bike, it will be better than a Vstrom off road (but probably NOT as good ON road) and should be better than both the Tenere' and GS. The BIG KTM? Not sure. Only seen the 950's and 990's off road (in person). The 950SE rides like a 600 single. The 990 is just another Pig.

The other bike in contention against the new AT is the new Tiger 800 XCX. It it wasn't so overpriced it'd have a chance. As it stands, Honda's AT will out sell the Tiger 5 to one.

The other thing to consider is crash damage. The aforementioned 990 does NOT crash well. Expensive and tragic when it hits the ground.
Tiger a bit better with heavy crash bars.

Same with Vstrom ... disaster! The GS? surprisingly a very good crasher ... due to those big jugs sticking out taking the shot! Yea BMW! Nothing more entertaining than to see a $25,000 USD GS flipping down the trail.
(been there, seen that one in person!)

Tenere'? Not too bad if fully equipped with 40 lbs. of crash bars!

But if you plan to crash, get a cheap bike. I've fallen off my DR650 dozens of times. I think I broke a lever and mirror one time.

It is indeed heavy (though not quite 550lbs), but I'm hopeful over this DCT transmission. Ok, sure, it's still not going to be better off road than a genuinely light single-cylinder bike, I know that... but maybe for a relative novice like me, the DCT system will make it easier to handle than a manual bike 50-100lbs lighter? I don't know, it's just a theory, time will tell...

But I do know that every review I've read/seen so far is going crazy over how much easier the DCT made the off road sections compared to the (lighter) manual transmission version.

Of course, it could all be hype, plus the warm glow of all the free food and drink Honda no doubt provided....