Don't kid yourself. The Japanese do extensive testing, always have. Especially HONDA. Did you know they have a HUGE test track in the Mojave desert where they've tested both cars and bikes for DECADES. I know a mountain you can climb up on a good trail bike for a decent view. Overwise you can't get within 500 yards of it ... and can't see a thing.

It's big oval with a separate motocross track and more you can't see. Totally hidden. NO signs on the road. We always thought it was military (lots of military in the area). Honda have several such facilities world wide. Plus, they have dozens of test riders on the development team, some are famous racers or former racers. Testing is a big deal.

I've not been to Honda factory but did get a short tour of Yamaha in Japan.
We were there to interview CEO so the factory tour was just a courtesy.

They showed us (very briefly) the engine "test to failure" room where engines are run 24/7 at redline until failure. YES! They actually do this!

Oil and coolant are piped through constantly. Once it blows or seizes ... they tear it down and find out why ... then make that part better. It's what they do.
When my new (demo actually) Acura blew it's trans they pulled it out, put it in a crate and off to Japan it went. No round eyes were allowed to touch it.

In the grand scheme, this Africa Twin is kind of a big deal for Honda. Legacy and all. So it would be very bad form for it to fail or have lots of problems. They would lose "face". Very bad in Japanese culture. Someone would have to fall on his sword.

No, I don't think it's hype at all. In fact I KNOW its better! How many here ever rode a Husky 4 Speed Auto? I did! Remarkable on rocky, technical slow going up hills. No clutch slipping and plenty of easy to use torque where and when you needed. It was (IIRC) a 430 2 Stroke, so massive power, easy to ride in deep sand and mud as well.

Modern bikes using Recluse type auto transmissions are similar in character to DCT.
I've ridden those too ... and they are marvelous. So yes, you are correct and will do fine on the DCT. But the weight will still be there. Best to learn dirt riding on a lighter bike like a 250. You well learn faster, no damage to bike or body and your learning curve will be MUCH faster. Then, once on the BIG BIKE, you will have more confidence. Go for it!

Like Molly said, the japan guys test damn hard all their machines
examples
- Subaru first 100 000 km test without stop
- several 6 cylinders running' until they break( if you know the price )
- idem for the gold wings
- test pilots ? I had seen a regular truck from HRC with three enduro bikes around, north of N'Kob in the middle of nowhere ; when we passed, the put the bikes in the truck
- After the firs dakars, some yam' techs came to France to visit the "protos" engaged ( base upon XT mostly ) , after the failure of the 550' ( no character no look) and then they put ténéré, 600 and 660 on the market ... the first tested fully in Algeria desert ( around 81/82) .....
they know how to do this ...

悪事千里をはしる

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"In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV." R. Pirsig

You have missed the point, completely.

Perhaps it's related to the HUBB pub thing.

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Dave

Sorry about that ... so what was your point again?

Here is what I read and how I interpreted your previous post.
Please correct and advise:
I think you're saying CCM do more rigorous and extensive testing than do
Big Four OEMs?? Did I get that bit wrong? Any case, I contend just the opposite. CCM can't even hope to afford the extensive testing the big OEM's can do.
Well, once the bike actually is being sold, then perhaps we'll have a few members here to give feedback on the new bike?
Until then ... it's all just friendly Pub banter and mostly pure speculation.

So to me Hubb Pub is where the topic should be ... for now.
You could start a new thread in the Honda sub forum I guess. I'll put in my 2 cents.

We truly are two nations separated by a common language!

The whole context of my linking together of two earlier posts related to the availability of test rides by the "punters" = us, joe soap general public.
For those who visit the factory, CCM have their test ride outs for said punters in their local area including some riding of the local lanes, + they have taken (during the past 12 months) the test fleet to local events in the UK where the bikes have also been taken "off road".
Combined with their website, that is probably the sum total of their sales effort.

The last time I came across that "level of service" it was from Aprilia UK back in 2001 (I still have the T shirt).
OTOH (there has to be one), BMW Motorrad provide a similar access to test motorbikes across a wide range of places in mainland Europe but I haven't seen anyone offering that in the UK (having seen what happened to the Aprilia machines I am totally not surprised).

No matter about when a full on AT thread starts in here - internet based rumour says that deliveries of the new AT are delayed.

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Dave

Cheers Dave,
Now I get it.
You are 100% correct! NONE of the big four offer test rides on new bikes. NONE (in USA) have "demos" in stock. (with a few exceptions from time to time)

This is the BIG inside move that CCM have over the Big Four. Offering test rides is KEY to success, IMHO. It's helped BMW big time here in USA.

Why won't Big Four offer test rides? "They" say, insurance/liability issues. Fair enough, I'd not have confidence putting a 16 year old on a new Hayabusa .... and this is always their rationale.

Yet BMW, Triumph and KTM ALL offer demos for testing. KTM even have weekend demo events in the Desert (California) for anyone to come out and ride a new KTM in the dirt!. Boy, does that sell bikes!

BMW have offered test rides since forever, but NOT off road (far as I know). Triumph has offered Test rides since entering USA market in '92 or '93 or so. KTM is limited and not all dealers offer test rides but many do. But KTM GMBH do set up these incredible Desert test weekends, even includes lessons from the pros.

Some other EURO dealers also offer test rides. I've been lent new Ducatis several times. Aprilia as well.

If you know a Japanese dealer well you may get a test ride, but not off road unless they have a "special event", rare but they do happen once in a while.

As a member of the media (now retired) I could get any bike anytime. But your average guys never could. It hurts sales and always has. Obviously the Euro dealers have "better" insurance" and are willing to pay the big premiums to offer test ride programs.

CCM will have a tough time navigating our litigious system here in USA. This is perhaps why their marketing efforts here are delayed? They'll need good insurance or risk being sued into oblivion.

I do not see so many differences in fact .
example 1
You want to test on road a brand new GSXR, or R1 or whatever . Il you are known by some dealer, you could , or if you look "trusty" enough
Off road , except on occasion ( the day for bla bla , BMW asked me twice, never stock bikes, always team caring, hours of waiting so no ! ) NO here .
Of course i did a ride with the local dealer own bike ( on tracks too ) before buying another DRZ , but he is my friend ! knows a i wont be stupid with the bike
example 2 .
What for me is comparable to CCM ( I love these bikes, tried to find one in France last year : impossible ) is BIMOTA .
every bike is different, all parts are top market, you can go and test on racing places , it is crazy expensive .

I paid a forth-hand DRZ with 5000 km , only one ring to change twice or thrice cheaper than an unfindable CCM , worse for a ktm .

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"In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV." R. Pirsig

From Lanesplitter review:

"Now, I should be clear here that I’m not an expert off-road rider or someone extremely qualified to dive into the subtle differences between various off-road machines. But I can tell you I’ve ridden all and I’ve spent a lot of miles off road and the Africa twin is better than anything else I’ve ridden off road with more than 650 ccs. It’s better than that XR650L, better than the GS, and better than the KTM. We didn’t get into anything too crazy and technical, but lots of South Africa looks like the California high desert and there wasn’t a single time during the day where I wished for anything smaller, lighter, more powerful, or different."

Ok, not conclusive... the reviewer had just been wined and dined for 6 days at Honda's expense by the sounds of things. But I must say, based on the reviews, I'm excited to try it.

Actually, the Tenere does moderate dirt very well with most riders taking advantage of off road riding. According to my poll here a majority of nearly 70 percent do so. Do you ride your Tenere off road? some flat out flog it.

I just like it for dirt/gravel road riding which it does better than my KLR do to it's better balance, it is also easier to pick up do to the lower center of gravity. A friend I ride with who has a GS 650 commented how much smoother the Tenere soaks up the pot holes over his bike, that extra weight equals more comfort on the dirt as well as the road.

The abs is not a problem on anything but wash boards , nor are the linked brakes which I only turn off to back that ass up when going around dirt corners

The traction control is ok I guess, I do not really want or need it but it gives lots of people peace of mind so whatever.

Overall I think people would be happy with it's capabilities overall.

The only area that has been a bitter disappointment has been the fork seals which I replaced at 3k and ended up with a small scratch on my ringht fork a thousand miles later, apparently I am an anomaly but it does tick me off as I by no means flog it.

It's better off-road than a XR650L ??? Really ???

I have a XR650L. It's a proper off-road bike. It weighs HALF of the Africa twin and has about twice the suspension travel, double the clearance and 21/18 wheels. And a Torquey 650cc Single which when geared properly pulls great.

It can really rip on the trails..

Now I've never ridden the new Africa Twin but that is quite a statement. If that's true then Honda really have created a fantastic bike.

Fair enough, you say you didn't do anything technical and that might be the key. I'm sure once the trail got tricky that AT would soon show it's weight, lack of travel and lack of ground clearance.

I need to get a ride on one...

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Like Ted I would like to test it, but I am afraid it is mpossible ( see ante ) .
So for the moment I stay ( very) skeptical .
because
I had seen what a ktm could do with a good pilot`
I know what a DL , DR, XT, XL R can do with a medium pilot
I know what a very good pilot can do on any bike ( I mean Rahier, Neveu ..) . SO In this message, the option
not experienced/it is the best bike I ever ride ..sounds ....

I once ride a husqy, think It was a 530 or something, on an easy easy trail , dry .
As I put the throttle in 3d gear , the bike started to slide from the rear. I was lucky enough to keep on riding ,and made a 180° turn....
by luck only .... it was around 87 . .... rode a TT 600 yam' at this time ..
difference ?? yes there is a huge !

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"In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV." R. Pirsig

Most of us mere mortals wouldn't know if a decent bike to a dog, the AT has been tested by top enduro riders and yes they can toss that thing round like a pan cake, I like the look of it, I'm like every one else went to the nec, I wouldn't buy without a test ride but who's to say I may not like it when I ride it, then Are we going to say I don't know nothing about bikes, bull shit, a bike is about the brand just like a pair of Nike trainers must have, if I like I will have one but not until it's been test ridden by a few thousand test pilots.
Sorry about the bluntness

I am sure as an adult who has motorcycle experience you can tell one from the other, go give one a go, I promise you will like it.

Now with that said, you do not have to sell whatever you ride now, its all about experience : )

A KLR650 true wet weight is around 400 lbs. Yamaha claim 575 lbs. wet for your 1200 Tenere' but TRUE (Yamaha lied!) wet weight is 638 lbs. This well known among owners and journos who actually weigh bikes.

So, you're telling us a 400 lbs. (+ or -) is easier to lift up off the ground than a
638 lbs. 1200 Tenere'? At roughly 200 lbs. MORE, I seriously doubt that.

I've ridden the 1200 Ten but on road only and never picked one up ... and would not even attempt it without help. Like the KLR, both lay FLAT on the ground so that first 1/2 meter is tough to raise up.

I owned two KLR's and lifted them out of Baja sand several times ... not easy solo but I could just make it. A well set up KLR (very few are) is not bad off road. No KTM, but you can survive pretty well if you have some skills. Get proper suspension on your KLR, you will see a major difference in handling off road.

I liked the Tenere well enough, but both riding buddies who owned them (bought 1st year bikes) have sold them on.

A nick in your fork tube can happen to ANY BIKE and ANY RIDER. Just bad luck. No fault of yours or the bike. (mostly)
Most times the scratch or nick can be buffed out. (carefully, by someone who knows how to do it!). Fork seals most times simply have some crud trapped under rubber sealing lip. Just clean it out and you are good to go.

Riding Soft or Hard, should not affect life of your fork seals. But keeping dirt and grit away is a good idea and proper maintenance should include pulling off oil seals once in a while and cleaning around fork seals.