At the UK bike show of last month I didn't get nearer than approximately 5 m to the 3-4 ATs that were being displayed.
It would have been easy to sit on any one of them, stand on the pegs etc but it does nothing for me when the bikes are more or less bolted to the floor.
The main reason I didn't bother however is the old adage that I don't buy a new-to-the-market product in the first year of production, and I often wait longer than one year.

Standing back that 5 m or thereabouts I was struck by how "1980s - 1990s" the colour schemes of the new AT appear to my eye.
There is something of the United Colours of Benetton about the livery.

__________________
Dave

Right you are! Thing is ... it's just as soft on either side.
Been there, done that!

But getting off track is slightly better as big Power Trucks DIG UP the track for fun. It eventually becomes Silt (Fesh Fesh). We find this in Baja too ... 1000 HP Trophy trucks ruin nice two track and make it tough on a bike.

On your KTM you'd just click down a gear, gas it and get past the mesh on the verge. Those silt beds can eat the best of them.

Everyone I've met doing RTW or long trips on 250cc bikes have never said they wished they'd taken a heavier, more powerful bike, but many I've met on big bikes told me they'd wished they had taken something lighter. It's a shame that no one will make a proper RTW bike, I guess if we all chipped in here it would end up looking kinda like a moto version of that car Homer Simpson makes for his long lost brother.

Yes, BMW and KTM have dominated the Big Trailie class for years. But only Yamaha has come up with any real competition. But how much competition can a 638 lbs. bike be?

Both BMW GS and KTM (990, 1190, 1290) are close to 100 lbs. lighter weight, have more HP with better all round attributes. Of course the Tenere wins big on COST, Maintenance and ultimate reliability. Which would I take to Mongolia?
Japanese Please!

But motorcycle purchase is an emotional thing ... hence tens of thousands buy the Euro dream machines. (NOT ME!)

Lately that's true. But don't blame the mags. What else can report on since Kawi, Honda and Suzuki are not really in the Big ADV fight?

BMW and KTM got the class to themselves in the BIG EXPENSIVE Giant trailie area. You could toss in the Multi Strada ... which I've also ridden and wouldn't even dare take it on a fire road.

Yamaha are in there but to me the big Ten is ill conceived with weight being biggest negative. It feels HEAVY (to me)

Many former GS riding buddies mostly all now ride KTM. Some tried (or owned the big Tenere briefly) but all ended up (as of now) on a new KTM every year. These are not "common men"

But I'd reserve judgement until you've ridden a new KTM back to back with your Tenere'. And the newest GS-LC is also quite impressive. It's actually FAST.
A first for me riding big GS's. (I tested and reviewed: R1100, R1150, R1200GS)

The new 12 is a mind blower. The KTM? Try one out, then we'll talk.

Here we agree. I know all too well the PISS POOR reliability and massive up keep a BMW (and KTM) can cost. Guys I know can afford them and don't go RTW on a bike.

I've towed a few fairly new GS's to safety. Basic service costs at a dealer are ABSURD. Forget it! Even if I could pay, I wouldn't.
I've got friends who work at BMW shops. In private they're disgusted by the prices and by how frequently the bikes fail.

The good news is reliability has improved the last few years and BMW are now more forthright about admitting screw ups and covering it. KTM too are better. Early 950's were a nightmare of broken motors (most caused by failed water pumps or broken valve gear) The 990's weren't much better but since then we see improvement.

You mean the "Race Track"? No, I believe this is somewhere in Eastern Mojave,
South East of DV. Over 10 years ago, IIRC.

My question remains, how long were those on the 250cc bikes traveling for? I've actually got a Honda CRF250L, and if I took a year off work to travel around the world that is the bike I would take, absolutely. And I wouldn't go near a major highway if I could possibly avoid it.

But in reality, my trips are likely to be a month, two months, maybe three if I'm lucky. Ok, I could see the world one country at a time on a 250cc bike and keep flying home, but as I've said before, I like the experience of traveling long distances on a trip... there's something I like about continent crossing. While I do like to see things along the way and don't want to do a world record attempt, I'm also ok with not having seen every single thing there is to see in a country as I ride through it.

This necessitates some high-mileage highway days, there is just no avoiding it. And honestly, I would rather pick up a 500lbs bike 3 times a day than ride 700 miles on a highway on my CRF250L, I really would. Don't get my wrong, great bike... but not built for highways. Also, at highway speeds the fuel economy drops off alarmingly, and the tank is tiny so you'd need an aftermarket tank.

It's like I keep saying, horses for courses. I don't think anyone disputes that the answer to the question of "I'm taking a year to ride around the world solo. What bike should I take?" is "a 250cc single." But many riders are asking a different question, which is "I want to travel a great distance over a couple of months. I'll mainly be riding on paved roads, but very occasionally I'll be riding on gravel. What bike should I take?" And from the reviews I've read it sounds like the Africa Twin could be a worthy answer to that question.

Very thoughtful comments from someone who's been out there, done it and thought about it a lot.
Couple thoughts:
First off, I agree the Africa Twin is likely to be a GREAT travel bike for what you've described. But since you're doing 1 month to 3 month trips, seems to me you could pick and choose THE RIGHT BIKE for the region you intend to cover

More off road or small, slower roads? Your CRF250L perhaps? Or if a fair mix of Off road/On road, then maybe go up a class to 450's? Or even 650cc class.

For mostly On Road travel I have hope the Africa Twin will do well, but may be even BETTER bikes for "mostly pavement" rides, consider: BMW GS, Vstrom, Aprilia Capo Nord, Yamaha Tenere 1200, Ducati Multistrada, various big KTMs. (1050, 1290, 800?), Kawi Versys 1000.

Regards your willingness to pick up a heavy bike 3 times a day ... may be more too it. When you fall you always risk having that lump fall on your leg, ankle, foot. Seen in in person many times. Not pretty. The other Wild Card is damage to bike. Some bikes crash well, some do not. Bikes like your CRF250L
or my DR650, both can hit the ground and rarely sustain serious damage.

But try that with a Vstrom, Multistrada or Capo Nord. We don't know how the Africa Twin will survive a crash, from the looks I say "pretty good". The Motorcyclist guy, Ari Henning, nearly bought it in the video, nearly high sided at 70 or 80 mph riding desert tracks. How would the bike survive a crash at that speed. I'm betting young Ari shit himself on that one!

Your "Horses For Courses" comment, to me, is SPOT ON.
And this is why I'd consider a different bike for every trip. Buy and prep for a certain region. Do trip, sell off bike. Next up, do it all again, perhaps change bikes ... or?
Just a few of mine going back to the 90's, mostly in Mexico, USA and Canada. All had their highs and lows for travel. I also did shorter trips ... and have tried lots of bikes from ALL classes.

XL600R - Headed to Baja (700 mile ride to border) in the 80's, plus thousands mi. more on/off road in California, Nevada.

KLR Press Bike in Copper Canyon in '98

Aprilia CapoNord press bike for review. Tested for two months, 2500 miles.

Tiger- 3 months riding UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Morocco.

strom, 90,000 miles of USA, Mexico, Canada. Thousands of pics.

XR250 3 weeks in Baja

WR250 California Desert, Sierra Nevada mtns., plus one two ween Baja ride.

DR650 in Baja. 65,000 miles, rides through California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Colorado 5 Mexico trips since 2006.

Like I said, the yami checked all the boxes for me although a used GS was very nearly my steed instead. Thoughts of the Ages: Why does the Yamaha Super Tenere not get the reviews of KTM & BMW Adventure?
its the same regardless of type of bike, thus my statement.

some story every type of bike. I have about as much use for magazines as I do modern yellow journalism in the main stream media.

What common man making 40k a year can afford a 20k toy? supertenere.com is filled full of the opposite, course to be fair klr650.net is filled full of lots of people who went backwards completely.
I have no doubt a KTM probably is a great riding test machine, to own? no way in hell see my blog. besides, I am not a want kind of guy at all, never have been.

they go rtw on a jet?

A few years ago I was bikeless and was talked into a ninja250 do to its crazy good gas mileage.
The bike was fun as shit to tool around on town with, but on the highway beyond the comfort level of a 4x4 it was nearly useless, that is the one bike I have no regrets getting rid of.
I am along your line of thinking, I would rather tour on a touring type steed over suffering at all anymore. Will I ever ride RTW in one fell swoop? Unlikely, I have spent nearly every day of my life in the wilderness and I look forward to sleeping on the ground about as much as I do to hitting my finger with a hammer, not at all.
Most people really will not either, thus why these big bikes make complete and total sense, especially if you only plan on riding fireroads etc, they soak up the bumps just fine and unlike how many people seem to think, it is not extreme at all IMO> I rode my zx6r on the dirt with qualifiers all the tiem with zero issues, hell the same went in snow, as I did on with my old cruiser. Course I am from Montana, so my Idea of a bad road is nothing like most people whot think any dirt under their wheels is an adventure and requires the best dirt tire.
being realistic is the smart thing regardless of what bike you own.

I vote would for a KTM 390 adv, some need to just slow down and smell , it wouldnt hurt to see something along the way either.

Mollydog - great to see a Strom in those pictures, as an ex-DL650 owner myself! Still miss that bike a bit, I must say... not 'cool' or 'sexy,' but still easy to love somehow.

Re: Been there and done it - I've only been riding at all for about 4 or 5 years. But in that time I have done a few 4000-5000 mile trips. What I haven't done though is any long trip that has involved any off-road sections, other than riding from the road to the camp site. Actually, saying that, I did ride some gravel roads along my Route 66 trip, but didn't really learn much from that other than that a 700lbs cruiser with zero suspension travel isn't the right bike for unpaved roads... but I already kinda knew that!!

The reason that I'm in the market for an 'adventure bike' is that I'm interested in doing some rides that have a little off-road in them. Not a lot... probably less than 10%, maybe less than 5%... but still a little.

I think you're probably right that the new Africa Twin isn't going to be the best road bike of the class... in fact, that was the premise of my opening post But I don't know, somehow it is appealing to me nonetheless. Maybe the other big adventure bikes are biased 90/10 in favor of road riding, and the AT is 87/13? I'm finding that strangely interesting for some reason...

Shrek - I think you're right, and it's not stated enough that actually, riding long highway days on an uncomfortable bike can really put a downer on your trip. I've had days where my back hurts, or something like that where I can barely think about the riding and enjoyment because I'm so preoccupied about being sore. I experience a lot more on a trip if I'm comfortable and can enjoy what I'm seeing.

Yokesman - talk my boss into giving me another few months off work so that I can travel slowly, then we'll talk. By which I mean yes, traveling slowly is preferable to traveling quickly. But if you're not able to travel slowly, maybe traveling quickly is still better than not traveling at all?

From the perspective of the old Twin, mine is great everywhere except motorways. Above 65-70mph it becomes hard work and really doesn't like being pushed that hard.
I've done loads of miles on it, but planned routes to avoid using much motorways.
But as you've say, this limits you on time. If you've only got 2 or 3 weeks to travel, you can only cover so much distance.
With this in mind, I've bought a Tiger 800. Great bike to ride and suits me more as I come from a sports bike background.
I've kitted it up as I need it and have already had some great trips out on it.

I sat on the new twin at the NEC, but you really can't get the feel of a bike when it's fastened down. I will go and look at my dealer when they have them in, maybe get a test ride if they have a demo.
It does look interesting, but I don't know if I would want to drop any bike a currently own for one. It felt very similar ergonomically to my 2001 Twin to sit on, and with at least 40hp more should be very capable and not have the short fall I found on the original.

Like I said before though, it depends what you want and where your going to ride, as well as being honest to yourself with your abilities.
I did a lot of Europe on a ZZR, it was perfect for what I wanted at the time. I don't really do off road, but do appreciate the ergonomics of the twin and tiger. That and the carrying capacity.

Hope you find what your looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At last nail hit on the head..... Ergonomics. The only people who can afford new bikes are us old chaps, we are not five foot six tall weighing ten stone
It seems the Jap s use that as a Base model for anything sporty so don't go there. This leaves us with large overweight upright at bikes, the perfect thing for us fifty plus guys who like bacon sandwiches and .

I completely second the above. I like my XRV for its simplicity and durability but highways are no fun and that is keeping me from blasting long hauls for short breaks. Also the weight is a thing although I can pick up the bike by myself, even fully loaded but manoeurving / walking it, even wihout luggage is a thing. When I tilt it more than some15 degrees I have to lay it down Not so the new AT It feels so incredibly light compared to the XRV that it is almost spooky! It feels lighter than an XT660Z! Tilting it to 30/40 degrees (towards me while standing) was no problem at all! On top of that it is suposed to be great on highways. One journalist wrote that 160kph is a good cruising speed for the CRF Well, that did it for me. I have ordered one!

Cheers and Happy Holidays
Noel

come on, where is the middle? I don't need either 250cc or 1000cc+ bike -
I want 450cc, if it's good for the Dakar it sure will be good for me.

Ok, fine...

60% road - tremens' steed of choice!

That's impressive! I just hope Honda is not up to the tricks Triumph used to do at bike shows (and other OEM's as well).

Triumph (I know this for a FACT) used "dummy" engines for show bikes.
No internals ... No crank, rods, pistons, cams, valve gear. Nothing inside!

The bikes were positively featherweights to push around or lay over. Triumph admitted to the trick later but I'm thinking a lot of average show attendees never knew, bought a new Tiger or something and found it was just a plain old heavy Pig in reality.

This was back in around 2002 or '03. Triumph claimed it was a "cost" thing since they could not ever sell the show bikes, so why put all the "guts" in them? These bikes traveled all over the world to shows.

They also said it made the demo fleet cheaper and easier to move, load and unload. Once this came out in the press ... they never did it again. But word is several other OEM's have done this in the past ... or may be currently doing it now??

I've leaned 520 lbs. bike over several times to test weight ... not light!
(BMWGS, Vstrom 1000, Capo Nord, all round 520 lbs. wet )