Those are good points and shows the moral dilemma and possible hypocrisy we can be backed into.

Just my opinion but I feel 400% tax is unfair ... to everyone. And it's the locals who will be the first to find work-a-rounds to overcome such overzealous revenue enhancement ... legal or not.

One: the individual income tax for U S citizens is illegal and has been proven so in every court from city, county, state, federal and the supreme court. But, every legal employer requires employees to sign a W-4 form that is is the employees voluntary agreement to pay taxes to the state and federal government as required.

OK, so if you cheat or neglect to pay taxes you are violating an agreement you made in order to have legal employment.

Two: The TVIP temporary vehicle import permit issued when you (a tourist) enter your vehicle/ motorcycle into a foreign country clearly states that you voluntarily agree not to sell your vehicle/motorcycle in that country. So, if the vehicle/motorcycle was sold by a tourist having signed a TVIP in country, that makes the purchaser in possession of a vehicle/motorcycle and although the new owner might buy insurance, the insurance will not pay damages because in the fine print of all insurance policies it is clearly stated that the insurance only covers legally licensed /drivers/riders of vehicles/motorcycles legally operating. If the motorcycles title changes hands illegally, from that point whatever insurance is purchased WILL NOT PAY DAMAGES. And yes, the very first thing insurance agencies do before paying personal injury or property damage claims is investigate the transfer of title etc of the vehicle/motorcycle.

I worked for the international Red Cross Cruz Roja in Mexico for three years visiting tourists in Mexican jails mostly in jail due to not operating vehicles/motorcycles legally in Mexico and having had accidents involving personal injury or extensive property damage. Many - the majority thought they had a valid Mexican insurance policy, but the insurance agency discovered an illegality in the title or in the drivers permit and refused to pay bail and damages.

The back log on - the docket - in many foreign countries is years , not months - and that is just to make an appearance before a judge, - and with invalid insurance you stay in jail until the accident case is resolved whether you are at fault or not.

So, while in the States, the IRS enforces tax collection the fact that insurance companies will not pay if the "insured" vehicle/motorcycle is discovered to have been illegally purchased or the driver/rider does not have the required driving permit enforces the agreement not to sell vehicles/motorcycles after being entered into a country on a TVIP.

Three: FYI - there is no "no mans land" between borders where vehicle can be transferred, this is a scam created by those wanting to assure new buyers that the title transfer is legal if done in "no man's land" between borders. Countries borders are adjacent.

xfiltrate eat, drink and know the facts.

One negative aspect of the Hubb I have noticed over the years is there can be a tendency for some members to get "high and mighty." It is easy to start projecting your view of traveling as the only right way to do it.

I think 99.9% of the members on here are not stealing towels from hotel rooms.

Note: I find it much more interesting to read a ride report about a 23 year old French guy working in China who illegally purchased a DR350, had a fake Chinese drivers license made up, and rode all the way back to France, than I do to read about a guy on an R1200gs who stayed in $200 hotel rooms every night.

If, I get a flat on the side of the road. I will put my money on the French guy stopping to help me versus the R1200gs guy who paid all the "proper" fees in every country.

It is easy to be petty.

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http://www.journeyrider.net Latin America blog (07-8)

There's a whole argument to be made about sitting on the moral high ground and throwing stones into the mire below but it was the bit about stealing towels I really wanted to comment on. Talking to people I know who work in hotels they say that quite a few towels and other items are kept as "souvenirs" and it's a particular problem in the more upmarket establishments where towels etc are personalised with the hotel's name. Many people don't see it as theft, just one step up from taking the little shampoo bottles / soap. Likewise people wandering around the gardens taking cuttings from plants don't see they're doing anything wrong.

A month or so ago I stayed in a somewhat "humble" chain hotel in Rapid City, South Dakota where there was a framed notice on the check-in desk telling you in advance how much you'd be charged for missing items - towels were $10 from memory, but also on the list were hair dryer, iron, chair, TV, bed and furniture. Quite how you'd get a double bed or a desk out past reception and into your pick-up I'm not quite sure but at least you'd know from the list how much your card would be debited when they found out. Whether that counts as theft or just "advance purchase" again I'm not quite sure but at least you'd know where the line was.

I've been passed by guys on GS's many times when pulled over, broke down or had a flat. Not so much as a wave.

Who stopped for us ?? Wait for it ... Harley guys!

Try this:
Fraudulent whiplash claims total £1bn a year - Telegraph

Within the UK, there have been instances - by which I mean these cases have been tried and found guilty in a court - of whole communities involved in insurance scams, including the local garages, break down truck company and hire of replacement vehicles IIRC. Such scams very often bring in friends, neighbours, and other forms of associates with an attendant "mafiosi" code of "honour" (among thieves).
Some folks have been so busy with such activity that they don't have time to hold down a full time job, so they also claim for social benefits.

................. and that is just the ones we know about, who were found out.

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Dave

Two things i dislike, liars and thieves. And they can,t be trusted.

slightly different angle, but I really seriously object to people going to another country and treating it as their own personal rally raid. It's a big problem in Morocco and could ultimately lead to tings like bans to vehicles using anything but established tracks. I t does seem to be a problem encountered more with people from some countries than others.

Vandalism of important sites and littering is just another.

I read an account somewhere, can't remember where now, of someone taking a group to task for littering in a culturally important and sensitive area of the desert, the response 'why should we care, we aren't going to be coming here again'

Some people seem to have no consideration or interest in the consequences of their actions on those that follow, whether it's paying overly large bribes, throwing sweets to the kids, speeding or littering, just no thought beyond their own little bubble of enjoyment.

__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

I've just remembered a specific case I had in mind; ain't the internet a wonderful thing!
'Cash-for-crash' scam in Durham 'put car insurance up by £100' - BBC News

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Dave

Now there's a question, whether many of the people I've encountered in other countries over the years( anyone been to Rosso recently!) who seem to fall into those categories are just the usual low lifes who gather around borders, bus and train stations, hotels etc on the lookout for opportunistic encounters or whether they're normal citizens of a society that has different standards / rules from those we here live by.

For example, are "border helpers" just free enterprise in action or quasi criminal? Just because I've never had to pay a local to get me across the border into France or into the US doesn't mean they don't serve a legitimate purpose and are at least tolerated on other borders - or does it? Trip reports here are riddled with stories of encounters with "fixers", some of which have been welcomed and others not, some of which have gone well and others where it's been costly or worse. For some they're just exploitative chancers and for others they're a low cost short cut through time consuming bureaucracy.

If we visit a country and then behave in ways that are normal by their standards but unacceptable by ours what, if anything, are we guilty of? Does "when in Rome etc" apply or should we continue to maintain what to us would be some kind of higher standard. A small example - many years ago I travelled from Dakar - Bamako by train, a trip that took 36hrs. During that time most, if not all, of my fellow travellers took to throwing their food leftovers out the train windows and on talking to some of them was told that this was normal practice, what everyone does. That wouldn't really be acceptable on the Chiltern Line into London. So, should I have thrown my scraps like everyone else or would that be the slippery slope to moral decline?

There's no doubt that criminal behaviour is beyond the pale but in many countries exactly what is criminal is open to a degree of interpretation - an accusation of speeding (or half a dozen other things) that magically vanishes when €20 is found in the back of a passport for example. Was I guilty of an offence or a victim of exploitation? Moral codes vary across the planet so I suppose it's not surprising that not everyone plays by the rules you (=we) were brought up with. Even within societies people have different priorities so I suppose it's equally not surprising that you'll meet people who behave in ways you wouldn't. Exactly how much to adapt (and whether it's possible / desirable to do so) and who we trust are decisions each of us makes when we travel and we take the consequences of our conclusions.

No issues with the second case.
I have come to accept that lying is a rather natural trait of humans - who knows if other forms of animals manage to lie to their kind by means of other than speech?
Lying occurs in every form of human activity has been my thought for quite some time, so it then tends to come down to what is their motivation for that lie -- basically there are white lies and there are other forms.


I am one of them "when in Rome do as the Romans do" when living in various countries.
That is pragmatism; to attempt to do otherwise develops into really hard work to the point that one can lose the will to live (there) on some occasions.

Simply passing through a place for a few days may be a different matter - as per your example the mindset of "Im not coming back this way" can prevail.

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Dave

Border helpers serve a purpose ... and as you've noted; there are good ones and bad.

Some borders don't require them, but some cases it's worth it ... especially if you're in a hurry. The "helpers" barge in que's and get away with it. Some are crooks, some just trying to survive. I'm not good at barging ques so I let them do it!

Throwing garbage is common and acceptable in many countries and is revolting to most westerners. If you'd spoken local language, ASKED locals about this you may have heard some interesting answers. I know I was surprised when I asked about it.

Locals told me time after time that street sweepers and track walkers are hired to pick up garbage ... and they do it all day long. Around stations, cities, tracks.

Rationale being: if they didn't throw garbage these folk would be out of a job! My retort was "why not just use proper refuse containers".

Answer: Look at the one in the train! (typically full of shite (diapers) to overflowing and unattended) Can't argue with that one. (been there, seen it)

I do know in Mexico (after 40 years of ad campaigns) we finally see a small change in random tossing garbage mentality. Still a LONG way to go but BETTER! Cities now have MORE trash barrels and most actually have room for trash and are emptied in a timely fashion. (biggest problem is merchants using them for their debris ... which is illegal)

The bogus speeding thing is good example ...something that does not happen much in "1st world" countries. Cops may lie (and murder) but usually can't be bothered to pull you and say you were speeding ... (unless you're black or brown of course ...).

In some cases tourists are targeted specifically. (IE: Northern Argentina, Lima, Turkey and elsewhere). When with UNICEF in Ghana some Moto cop tried to pull over the new Land Rover and our driver just ignored him ... and drove on, giving him some sort of indecipherable hand signal out the window, cop finally backed off. We had a CIA guy in the car with us some other "unknown" players.



Great comment! These are the essential questions we must ask ourselves as travelers. When I lived in Guatemala (3 years off/on) I saw despicable actions by foreign residents who exploited their elevated position time and again for personal advantage. Total disdain for the "rules". ... and of course they had pages of rationale as to why it was "OK" for them. Almost believable.

I really think this goes far beyond stealing towels from hotels. and this is not just Overlander travellers it is every one.

We are the on ground ambassadors, we are the one that prove despite how stupid, evil and corrupt our governments are we are just people, just like our hosts.

Remember stealing towels raises the cost for the next guy (they gotta replace em somehow).

The reason for the 400% import tariffs was IN RESPONSE TO ILLEGAL IMPORTS not cus the government is (necessarily) corrupt. No it does not make sense but this is the government we are talking about. Every one that does any dodgy deal like that is the cause of the high Carnet fees.

Other S#ity behaviors that I have seen first hand include,

A bike tour group tearing around the Plane of Jars in Laos (only >5000 year old stone structures) ripping the ground to shreds and scarring the few tourist that are there. The rangers were in tears as they had no power to do anything. When I said something my life was threatened.. There was 15 guys vrs me. They did not stop.

A @#$%$# emptying his oil in to the storm drains next to a beach in Australia.. I held them there till the cops came. $10,000 fine, van confiscated and trip over and BANNED from Australia for life. (So worth the 5 minute trip to the local parts shop who as a rule will take it for FREE)

Bunch of french backpacker ripping the wires out of a tourist info bay to charge their iphones!!! (Jail time I believe, fines and banned). (Rural Australia)

These two Australia examples have resulted in the tourist bay being shut down (it was free camping with loos/showers) and that beach parking going from free to paid and closed at sunset.. No more enjoying the sunset there.

France some @#$% decided to touch a 20k year old cave painting and destroyed it (all hell broke lose; I dont know what happened but I know I was one of the last people to see it "intact". -- not a good thing)

Even the "lovely gesture" of giving sweats or any gifts to kids in small villages although completely well-intentioned it has had the effect of you cant move in some spots with out being chased by toothless kids yelling "sweeetttty, sweeetttty, sweeetttty, sweeetttty" or "cadeau, cadeau, cadeau, cadeau". Bad for them bad for us.


Newton's law here guys... every action has an equal and opposite reaction

Maybe not opposite, but if you treat your hosts (be it a country or individual people) with honour, honestly, kindness and respect, YOU and the NEXT TRAVELLER will be treated with honour, honestly, kindness and respect . Your actions have repercussion for others. Think about others (both your hosts and your fellow travelers) before you do everything.

Okay off high horse

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2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com

There would appear to be more than a few HUBB members who feel that varying degrees of dishonesty are acceptable; I don't know about towels, but I seem to read of theft, fraud and hooky documentation with recommendations about how to do it quite regularly.

I'm not sure generalizing about riders of particular marques is helpful; what you have written sounds like inverted snobbery or class envy (also quite prevalent on this site from time to time) and it has driven away at least one very interesting contributor who just plain got cheesed off with it.

I think Grant & Susan rode a BMW, Tiffany Coates rides one and also a number of other folk who would probably help a stranded rider. Have I made my point yet?

Gotta agree with docksherlock, I've been riding for >30 years on a number of different marques. Today it happens to be a GSA. I've had roadside help on a number of occasions and in return I've given it. It's not about the bike it's about the mentality of the person riding it, If a GS(A) rides on past you then please assume that the rider is a jerk, not ALL GS(A) riders.....

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A big boy did it and ran away.