I was kind of with you until that non-sequitor.

Can you justify that statement?

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

The French have always been at the heart of the protection racket.

A little more about France; an abstract mainly from elsewhere with a few extras:-



France has many many problems - but potentially, they have the talent and resilience to overcome some of them, at least.
the French, however... and especially via the nascent HQ in Brussels.... seem to have no way of defending the raids on European funds from the Eastern Bloc and the related disaster in Greece. For some reason they cannot stop that rot. And, they hide behind a heap of bureaucracy and the thought that "something will be done, somehow" (by somebody else, or by luck).
Meanwhile their "suits" coming out of Ecole Polytechnique are contemptuous of their own people, their country and their people's future; much like certain UK politicians.
Surely the French (or anyone else) cannot believe Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Moldova* have anything to offer the good people in Europe but grief, criminality and expense ?

All these countries are primed to join the EU soon. Like the rest of EBloc, the result for France will be more unemployment and more imported criminals and freeloaders.
(*Even if Moldova does not join the EU soon, about 1m of its' citizens were issued Romanian passports a few years ago as part of the internal politics between those two nations).


There is a "good" Europe to be had.
Build a border across East Germany and draw the line down to include Italy. Phone up Norway and persuade them back in.
Everywhere else (including Greece, unfortunately) is kicked out.
Put the Germans in charge of infrastructure and engineering, Scandinavians in charge of social care and logic, Italians and French for design and agriculture, English for Banking and Law.

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Dave

There are two specific areas of business activity for which the EU are completely behind the curve of the graph - these are the rapidly growing, worldwide activities of financial services and the digital economy.
Neither require real estate and they both transcend boundaries of all natures which is why the EU is befuddled in their dealings with them.

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Dave

Ask someone from San Francisco their nationality and chances are they will say American (or Mexican ). Few will say Californian. The Swiss, Canadians, Australians, other members of federated nations will name their nation not state/canton/province. They may complain when one sub-division gets a better deal but feel part of the whole enough to take the hit.

I am not a European. No such country exists, it is a geographical concept with a mis-sold inefficient trading block at its current core. You may as well call an Irish passport holder British as he lives on the geographical British Isles, or try and find the Scandinavian embassy. I do feel British because for close to a thousand years the varied inhabitants of these islands have pretty much pulled together and got on better than most. We have so much in common few can tell us apart. They mostly had no choice because English Kings were hard ******s, but it worked. The first 800 years were pretty nasty mind.

If we are to be annexed we need to start the process of giving up our thoughts of Britishness in the way the Texans mostly gave up theirs. I don’t want to, but we’ve tried the fudged middle ground and its worse. It’s like living in Yugoslavia but still thinking as a Serb or Croatian. We know how well that and the Hapsburg Empire before turned out with unwilling minorities all trying to get one over on the rest.

I hope people see sense. The UK exists and works and can function in the world. The EU-States hasn’t even admitted that’s what it wants to be, it keeps ducking the questions.

Andy

We're being annexed? Where does that come from?

I don't get where any of the rest of your post comes from.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Wow. Just wow! I don't even know where to start.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Hi Andy,

I don't quite follow the part about the French but the reasons our industries were sold off or dismantled is either because they were inefficient or because they were sacrificed on the alter of neoliberlism and top-down globalization, not because of the EU. If anything, industry and commerce seem overwhelmingly anti-brexit, not that that makes the EU right but it's a good indicator for me that the EU is perceived as overall, good for British industry. Incidentally Andy, I'd be interested to know what 'britishness' is to you?



I've read the lot but see very little but hyperbole. 33 pages and still no concrete reason to leave the EU. I mean the post above articulates it well. Do you really believe we'll have one government in Europe? Can you point to legislation or current framework that even suggests this? You keep posting articles but fail to provide us what you actually think?

A quick look at what may be in store for the Eurozone in a couple of days:
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/03...uins-pensions/

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Dave

The 21st century has a consistent evidence of proof of change.

Adopt, improve & overcome, the EU is not & shall not be immune to this methodology.

It requires its members to governance adherence, the HQ element should also lead by example & the current status quo isn't working.

Unaccountable to FOI requests= open to abuse.
The political environment both domestic & EU level must be on a level playing field, individual countries have a right to self control & governance and the EU has no right to withdraw this element unless they themselves are independently regulated.


Sent from my MoJ mobile tagging device

Because that's connected to this discussion how?

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Then you may be ready for the full document which was finalised last month:
http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf
It does run to over 400 pages so eat the elephant in bite sized chunks – there are a few weeks to go before anyone needs to make up their own mind and you did ask for explanations of how it could work out.

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Dave

The EU is at the very best a tower of Babel, at worst a sneaky "nazi" project. In any case only mental retards can come up with the idea of merging 28 divergent cultures (+ an indeterminate number of future entrants) into one (monster) multi-cultural entity.
Napoleon, the dictator, the thief, the guy who did not give a f***about the French so-called revolutionary ideals (fraternity, egality + one more buzz word), and only pillaged the countries he invaded, (all of the Louvre is Italian stuff robbed by him) needed to use FORCE to temporarily create a "fake" common entity (under French rule).
Ask the Maltese what they thought of French rule between 1799 and 1801 before the Brits kicked them off the island.


Whither an EU police force and a standing army when the Eurozone financial regulatory system collapses?


The Romans did infinitely better, and gave the Roman citizenship to rather huge numbers but, there again, they needed legions.
How many “legions” does the EU require today?
And when the legions were no longer effective, because of the perverse Christian religion, the self-serving, thieving imperial bureaucracy back at HQ (like that in Brussels) and most of all the dramatic acceptance of the barbarians (Goths) inside their borders (perhaps Muslim culture today), everything broke down.
The consequences of the break down we still call the "dark ages".


One of the key elements of the fall of Rome, was because numerous Emperors chose not to balance the books. They issued more and more coinage (with their head on it) with the hope that just the name alone would support its value ( think of QE x 1000) Eventually, that bluff was called by all those armies and governors and regions that were "Roman" by order, but without a single Italian-like bloke in the ranks.
Maybe a Western European "club" (not federal) that consisted of the traditional power nations of Europe is a tolerable concept - mixing their talents and general moral commonality.
This would, of course, exclude the EBloc/Balkans and the periphery toward Turkey. Is it likely? No.

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Dave

Okay, I'm out.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Splitter!

Andy

Me too! Roman legions, EU superstate, ad nausea. In no way have I seen any argument for Brexit that makes any sense whatsoever.