There lies the logical argument for a truly single* government for the EU, or at least for the Eurozone members - and hence the concept of two, or more, versions of the EU; an inner circle of those who use the Euro as their currency and an outer circle of those who have their own sovereign currency in perpetuity.
The issue then arises about how do those using their own currencies prop up the Euro when it is "struggling" and, for that matter, vice versa.
I guess recourse to the IMF is one answer.

*Slowly, step by step, it is getting there but the big hurdles remain fiscal union combined with greater integration of laws,especially the enforcement of such laws via the courts, a common police force and other judicial enforcement bodies (bailiffs, standing armed forces, border forces etc).

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Dave

It isn't possible, Walkabout. We are very far from the 1990s euphoria when being against the European Union immediately labeled the ones against it as dissidents, outcasts and, sometimes, outright fascists, nazis and silly mambo-jambo of the sort.

Neither the societies from the wealthier countries accept it nor the ones from the poorer countries. The wealthier see further integration as something which will dig deeper unto their pockets on top of what these countries have contributed to European coesion during the last decades. The poorer countries, right now, see Germany as the source for all their trouble and see further integration as a way for Germany to boss them around even more than they feel Germany does today.

At the beginning the Euro wasn't supposed to be as widely extended as it later became. Italy was to be the line in the sand. However then prime-minister of Spain, José Maria Aznar, torpedoed this thinking when he placed Spain en route to comply with the criteria for adopting the Euro. Now, if Spain was accepted then Italy couldn't possible stay out neither could Portugal. Greece soon followed and in the end the adoption of the euro became mandatory for all EU countries except for the United Kingdom and Denmark which both have opt-outs. All other countries must, eventually, join the common currency.

Without Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy the Euro wouldn't need any prop-up. Quite the opposite in fact for the Euro without these countries would be way too strong and only with time and the normal functioning of the currency markets would weaken it a bit. But, in any event, it would be a much stronger currency than nowadays. The question now becomes if such strong currency would be adequate for the likes of France or, right now, Finland or if even this smaller version of the Euro would be too big. There are several lunacies in the Euro and this is just one of them. One of the reasons why it couldn't possibly function in the long term.

and now it looks like we are getting Turkey in the affray with a nice bit of blackmailing of the EU, marvellous, so pleased we are an island and still have border control

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

I imagine that the UK PM has his fingers crossed that this one hangs together for a few more months.

It's just about a week since the UK PM pressed the flesh, again, with the Frenchman for building a nuclear power plant to provide about 7% of the UK future power requirement at a unit charge nearly 3x greater than current pricing for electricity – but it couldn't be anything whatsoever to do with the UK referendum though.
Mr Hollande did say “there will be consequences” in the event of a UK Brexit vote, so maybe he will prop up EDF until after 23 June, but thereafter he has elections next year.
EDF 'confident' Hinkley Point nuclear power station will go ahead - BBC News
Meanwhile a socialist French government that owns 85% of EDF is being asked by EDF to provide financial reassurance for the construction of a UK power generation plant, or they could go bust on this project.

“Imagine British Gas owners Centrica got into financial trouble after sinking billions into a French power station. And then imagine that the bill for rescuing it fell on to (UK) taxpayers. That is essentially the risk facing EDF and the French government”

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Dave

There is another possibility, and that would be the renewed establishment of a gold standard.
This is not a subject that I know much about, but there is discussion online about how it could be accomplished, including this commentary from a Belgium:
http://www.jcaschipper.nl/2013/07/dr...gold/#more-634

Then, there is the BofE interest in developing their own crypto-currency which would put the central bank in a strong position to eventually banish paper cash; the RScoin.
https://thestack.com/cloud/2016/03/1...native-rscoin/

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Dave

How about this ??? I'd happily swap all of Europe just for Canada.

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/...edium=Facebook

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

We can but hope. Natural resources traded for knowledge and skills in a bloc with close cultural and language ties worked for 150 years. If we can all get over us dumping them in the 1970''s and refusing to treat them as equals for years before its a great fit.

Andy

The French did just that about 250 years ago.
Their intelligentia referred to Canada as "just a few acres of snow" and withdrew from there to leave it to the British colonists.

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Dave

Sign this petition to bin Cameron after we achieve successful BREXIT

https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...signatures/new

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A different subject entirely. Dave is maybe not the greatest but the alternative is Mad Boris, Count Von Osborne or Komrade Korbin? They could re-make Carry on Screaming with that lot if Fenella Fielding felt up to it

Think I will leave that one.

Andy

I want to vote yes but, A) if yes wins then things are gonna more or less stay the same instead of UK becoming more intergrated and B) the chance to get the effing tories out of government once and for all with a NO vote and the ensuing "no confidence " in parliament , is far too good an opportunity to miss. Hmmm, decisions decisions

Given his feeble, limp writsted “negotiations” for a new deal with the EU and the manner they walked all over him, his position in negotiating our Brexit from his beloved EU on terms favourable to the UK is untenable. His friends and future employers Goldman Sachs et. al. will instruct him and dictate terms favourable to them and their oligarch clients in the EU. Let Cameron leave office and go and get rich like is idol and role model T.B. Liar. Osborne is similarly compromised so Boris it is.

I agree though, it is a choice between "three bumps on a log". Cameron however, is a simply a jumped up PR man with all the stature and statesmanship of a Surrey estate agent. Komrad Korbin and his future Vorkuta camp guards (in waiting) are unelectable.



Further, if you are in Scotland and wanted to leave the UK but were disappointed in defeat then now is the chance for some revenge; vote leave, this will provide both the impetus to bin Cameron and possibly trigger a new referendum for you guys. Everyone's a winner.

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A few thoughts.

The largest such petition to date was recently ignored by our illustrious government just because it suited them to do so, before it was even debated; Menningitis.
Thus indicating that these petitions are merely designed to distract.

Meanwhile, our PM has become the de facto cheer leader for his own negotiations with the EU when a man who was more sure of his ground might take a back seat for the referendum itself.

In the near future the electoral commission is due to decide the arrangements for the campaign proper - there is much infighting at present because money is involved.

The PM should fall on his own sword, as per "tradition", after June 23 but he won't because of who he is, so his own party will do for him - there is nothing as ruthless as the Tory party, as their previous leaders learnt.

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Dave

To clarify, the petition reads, "That David Cameron is precluded from negotiations with the EU in the event of Brexit."

This seems sensible, given his lack-luster original shopping list and the failure to even achieve that in full.

SIGNED

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

He won't be in office in the event of a brexit "yes"; the Tories will ensure that he knows where his sword is, pointy bit uppermost.

As an aside, there is something for everyone in this website, which claims to be a think tank that is neutral about the question.
e.g.
Pros and cons of the EU-Canada free trade deal | Open Europe

Regarding the potential for negotiations post a Brexit vote, there is an almost unspoken assumption that we, the UK, would be negotiating with the EU; personally, I would prefer to see these negotiations pick off individual countries one by one, starting with the massive trade inbalance that we have at present with Germany.
(Merc, VW etc would have to sweat for a while, during which there will be German elections in 2017 and we have two years to arrive at a deal that replaces the current arrangements).

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Dave