View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
|
Yes
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2-r.gif)
|
109 |
50.00% |
No
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3-r.gif)
|
46 |
21.10% |
No.. But things MUST change
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4-r.gif)
|
38 |
17.43% |
I don't care
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5-r.gif)
|
14 |
6.42% |
Undecided
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6-r.gif)
|
11 |
5.05% |
444Likes
![Closed Thread](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/buttons/threadclosed.gif) |
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
You have to admire how the politicians can pull the strings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arma
There's taking an alternate look at history, which I'm all for. Then there is this.
The only way to avoid loosing it by force would have been to become complicit in the crimes of the Nazi regime. In doing so we'd have lost something intangible but vastly more valuable than empire, gold or homeland.
|
As a follow up to my last post in here, the author of my last link wrote another later analysis, presented in 2008, about "the good war"; WW2.
The 'Good War' Myth of World War Two
It is this very emotion that the POTUS played upon during these last few days.
Historians are not in agreement about very much at all to do with that period.
__________________
Dave
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,474
|
|
Great a link to an organisation established by a National Front member and widely accused of denying the Holocaust. IHR is also regarded as antisemitic and having links with neo Nazi groups
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Apr 2016
|
![Wildman's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/customavatars/avatar26604_1.gif) |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
|
|
Not surprised. The "fear, uncertainty and doubt" of leaving the EU is clearly becoming a little less uncertain leading to more fear of Brexit. Inevitable that some will resort to even more extreme views.
Had unofficial confirmation this week that one of my clients, a major US multinational, have already established the plan to move their European HQ to Switzerland if we vote Brexit. Not if we leave; if the referendum votes "leave".
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
A couple of useful, perhaps even insightful, comments on recent news items.
Use of the word “Queue”:-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...pm_world_pop_b
And some commentary, analysis and general overview of some of the arguments, with a twist in the tale/tail:-
Why should we take advice from a president who has surrendered the world to chaos?
As for earlier comments herein related to writers on the internet, I read and assess the message without recourse to who the messenger happens to be; in other words, it is best to make up your own mind about the veracity of any particular piece of information.
It is salutary to know that traditional-minded, closed-shop type of people holding a particular ideology (whether they be MSM, historians, environmentalists or whatever) and all the other self-interested groups find their current orthodoxies under challenge – long may it continue.
In the specific two cases of the writings of Mark Weber to which I linked, he cites a wide range of traditional, well-known historians in his writings and he makes a strong case in each of the two articles, irrespective of the background history of the website for which he writes.
However, the overall point is that the current dude in the White House has done nothing different from his predecessors, but he has been far less subtle – possibly because he is winding down and seeing out his period of notice?
__________________
Dave
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,474
|
|
[QUOTE=Walkabout;536694]
In the specific two cases of the writings of Mark Weber to which I linked, he cites a wide range of traditional, well-known historians in his writings and he makes a strong case in each of the two articles, irrespective of the background history of the website for which he writes.
[QUOTE]
Your don't need to spend more than 10 minutes researching the IHR and Mark Weber to understand their agendas and attempts to change modern history through pseudo scholarly publications like their own Journal of Historical Review and their links with far right white supremacy movements
Mark Weber: The Professional Denier
I think I'll get my facts elsewhere thanks
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
25 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
Blockades of trade, in various forms - physical navies or trade embargoes - have always been a favourite method of starting a conflict, just as we have in place with Russia at present.
|
Quite. Watch out for increasing demonisation of Russia over the coming months/years. The establishment mean to re-arm with new nukes and an enemy is required to justify this eye watering expenditure. Russia is it.
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
25 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 38
|
|
Quite statement to make by the US about us being back of the line for trade agreements, considering I've just been reading how much we spend with them.
Mostly on defence, which really takes the biscuit really. We are currently about to take delivery of F35 Lightning jets from them at a cost of £5billion for the first 14 aircraft.
What really stings here is our own manufacturer BAE Systems is currently announcing redundancies due to lack of defence spending. Given that previous governments sold our aircraft industries down the river when we were already technically ahead of the rest of the world, we have to resort to partnering foreign company's to build anything today.
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
25 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
|
|
The SAAB Gripen would fit onto our new boats, the fish heads would get their flying pay and we wouldn't have to sign up to as many wars to get spare parts.
Andy
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
26 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
I was quite taken with Triumph's new Thruxton R and was in the mood to splash some cash on a sweet weekend bike such as this. Reading the test of the T120 in Bike magazine the journalist commented on the usual (new bike) poor fuelling caused by meeting EU stage 4 regulations. An easy fix with the right software however, the marketing director was quoted saying the ECU has anti-tamper software mandated by the EU making this impossible.
As most bikers will know, the EU five years ago attempted legislation to criminalise us for making the slightest modification to our own bikes/property, institute a surveillance regime compelling dealers and their mechanics to report us to the authorities and implement draconian penalties such as confiscation of our bikes for transgressions. Needles to say, the UK would gold plate such legislation, as is their way.
Happily, organised protests managed to water down the legislation and limit it to smaller bikes.
Confused, I wrote to the Triumph director quoted and good enough, received the following reply within 24 hours:
Dear Mr xxx
Thank you for making contact and raising the issue of anti-tamper as featured in Bike Magazine. I must also point out that I am marketing manager and not director as quoted!
Triumph ride by wire motorcycles do come with anti-tamper feature, this has been introduced by Triumph ahead of EU legislation coming in. You are correct, it is not mandated at present.
I hope this helps
Kind regards
Haydn
Clearly, Triumph are ahead of the game and know what's coming. Sadly for Triumph (and me) I will not be buying a new Triumph. The only way we can avoid such draconian legislation affecting us here in the UK, improve our bikes and freedoms is to vote leave.
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
26 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship
Before the referendum I predict that this government will engage or attempt to engage this country in a war, most probably in Libya with the intention of rallying the voters to the flag/Government.
It was a tactic seen to work from the days of Thatcher in the Falklands and T.B. Liar was relentless in this most cynical of political tactics.
|
Perhaps Obama will place the UK at the back of the queue for further military action in Iraq, Syria and Libya at the next NATO meeting.
We certainly need to be out of the queue for forming the EU armed forces.
__________________
Dave
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
26 Apr 2016
|
![Wildman's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/customavatars/avatar26604_1.gif) |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
|
|
Stop worrying about what Obama says and start looking forward to hearing what Marine le Pen has to say when she visits and how she'll be supporting Brexit.
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
26 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Funny old thing
It is reported that the French decision on the future of Hinckley Point C nuclear power station (due next month and key to current UK energy policy) has been postponed until September, conveniently after June 23.
It is not the first postponement this year alone.
__________________
Dave
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
26 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Whatever happened to Communism ideology?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
America did us no favours in WWII, the assistance was dependent upon Britain relinquishing its empire, and America didn't even declare war on Germany, it was the other way round. FFS!
Ever heard of the USA's War Plan Red for a war with Britain and an invasion of Canada?
Maybe Britain shouldn't have stood up for the rest of Europe in 1939. Hitler didn't want war with the UK. If Lord Halifax (foreign secretary) had been made Prime Minister when Chamberlain resigned, instead of Churchill, we would have come to an understanding with Germany. Instead it cost us our empire, all our gold reserves and an awful lot more. Not to mention the loss of civilian and military life and loss of armed forces assets (ships, planes). What did Britain get out of it other than a gift of a Christmas tree on Trafalgar Square every year from Norway?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arma
Does anyone reasonably believe that Nazi Germany would have stopped the advance as soon as their boots touched a line which said "British Empire"? I'll concede that, had the Empire stayed out it would have maybe had a stay of execution for a few decades but war would have broken out again and the Nazis would have come out on top. The British would be worse off, instead of losing Empire or gold they'd have lost everything.
The only way to avoid loosing it by force would have been to become complicit in the crimes of the Nazi regime. In doing so we'd have lost something intangible but vastly more valuable than empire, gold or homeland.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
Well it's going off topic somewhat, but Britain was seen by Germany as a fellow aryan country, and one with a strong empire to back it up. Germany's eyes were always fastened on Lebensraum in the east, coupled with the Nazi hatred of communism. But I grant you that who knows what might have happened 20 years down the line. Despite the resources of the British Empire and its strong naval and air forces, it was ultimately Russia, not the Americans/Brits/Canadians, who defeated Germany on the ground—the western allies never faced more than one-third of the Wehrmacht.
Why did we get involved to support Poland? Why didn't we get involved to support Republican Spain when Germany and Italy were supporting Franco?
|
So:-
I don't think that it is off topic, certainly not fully off topic.
Britain declared war on Germany in 1939 ostensibly to free Poland; Britain lost that declared war aim to the USSR.
Since then, research has shown that it was the then president of the USA who was fermenting the call to war in Europe for his own political aims. Germany was the chosen geo-political target, Italy was not specifically so and Franco's Spain got a bye.
In similar manner the public message of the American civil war was “to free the people from slavery”; in reality, the actual aim was to form an alliance of the individual States of that land under a single federal government via the imposition of a single currency, the latter being the single most significant factor in defining what a nation state is; a classic case of “ever closer union” by military means.
The same “ever closer union” aim is to be applied across Europe by means of economic conflict; in a word, homogeneous debt slavery.
The overall lesson is that populations should not conflate the public statements of their overlords (representative democracy, fascist or communist) with the real geo-political aims of their governments. In short, the publicly declared fine principles become marginal, at best, when it comes to real government decisions and actions and all politicians' promises have a “use before expiry date”.
Also, politicians will take stances within international affairs when they are struggling with their own domestic issues and their electorates (the USA is a current case in point that comes around every 4 years, Argentina is another); it is so much easier to pontificate to a crowd for which you have no actual responsibilities than to deal with those to whom you owe your position.
The USSR also won WW2 militarily, as Stalin reminded Churchill et al on various occasions.
Stalin was sufficiently ruthless that he sacrificed any number of his own people, that was necessary in his eyes, in order to achieve his aims; one estimate is 20 million.
As just one instance,.during the battle of Stalingrad some 10,0000 Soviet troops were shot by their own side to encourage the others to continue fighting.
The USSR also won the post-1945 cold war “peace” in terms of their political aims with their “land grab” of Eastern Europe (for 40+ years only) but it was clear that the soviets had little to offer to the subjugated populations; ironically, those East European nations found their own ways of throwing off the burden of communism, more or less led by the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989 – that process was relatively peaceful in that no one declared yet another European “hot” war in order to liberate such nations. In other words, internal unrest was sufficient to bring these various disparate countries to find their own solutions to their conditions – and that process is ongoing and far from finished.
From Hungary or Austria, for instance, in the SE of Europe to, say, Norway in the North (yes, the latter is not in the EU but it is in the Shengen area) none of them needs a homogeneous Europe of “ever closer union” in order to satisfy their own populations.
Nor does the Ukraine, which is currently part of the intended empire building of the central European powers.
The EU/EC are not prepared to allow individual countries to evolve at their own pace; rather, in the Ukraine they interfered to bring down a legitimately elected government.
The people of the Netherlands recently held a referendum on a Ukrainian related issue and decided by 2/3 of the voters that they do not want this EU-sponsored deal with the Ukraine. It remains to be seen if their own government opts to ignore their electorate and support the proposals to bail out the bankrupt Ukraine.
References:
The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers/Paul Kennedy
Stalingrad/Beevor
__________________
Dave
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
28 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship
I was quite taken with Triumph's new Thruxton R and was in the mood to splash some cash on a sweet weekend bike such as this. Reading the test of the T120 in Bike magazine the journalist commented on the usual (new bike) poor fuelling caused by meeting EU stage 4 regulations. An easy fix with the right software however, the marketing director was quoted saying the ECU has anti-tamper software mandated by the EU making this impossible.
As most bikers will know, the EU five years ago attempted legislation to criminalise us for making the slightest modification to our own bikes/property, institute a surveillance regime compelling dealers and their mechanics to report us to the authorities and implement draconian penalties such as confiscation of our bikes for transgressions. Needles to say, the UK would gold plate such legislation, as is their way.
Happily, organised protests managed to water down the legislation and limit it to smaller bikes.
Confused, I wrote to the Triumph director quoted and good enough, received the following reply within 24 hours: Dear Mr xxx
Thank you for making contact and raising the issue of anti-tamper as featured in Bike Magazine. I must also point out that I am marketing manager and not director as quoted!
Triumph ride by wire motorcycles do come with anti-tamper feature, this has been introduced by Triumph ahead of EU legislation coming in. You are correct, it is not mandated at present.
I hope this helps
Kind regards
Haydn
Clearly, Triumph are ahead of the game and know what's coming. Sadly for Triumph (and me) I will not be buying a new Triumph. The only way we can avoid such draconian legislation affecting us here in the UK, improve our bikes and freedoms is to vote leave.
|
I was banned from Pistonheads.com for posting this on their forum. They gave me the following reason:
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
29 Apr 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship
I was banned from Pistonheads.com for posting this on their forum. They gave me the following reason:
|
Are you bothered? (to mis-quote Ms Tate).
It is reported that a number of the UK MSM have curtailed or banned comments to their articles in their online media; freedom of speech is a precious concept and it is not always around when you want it.
Some other news outlets went with this item yesterday:-
UK Better Off Outside EU, Economists Say
Positive thinking in place of the usual scare mongering.
__________________
Dave
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 3 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
![Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.](/stuff/ripcord/ripcord-logo-250.jpg)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
![Five books by Graham Field!](/stuff/grahamfield/graham-field-2021-280.jpg)
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|