As good a way of deciding as reading most of the rubbish posted so far

Next summer:

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Hey Mods - I wonder if you would consider re-setting the vote poll at the top of the page?

This thread has been running since January and is the biggest ever topic on this site. The real poll is a binary - Vote Stay or Vote Leave. Pretty much every aspect of the argument has now been covered so with less than two weeks left it would be interesting to see how all these people think now. How's about it?

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well that would be fairly pointless

Exactly....that's my whole point!

1803–1815 Napoleonic Wars
1804–1813 First Serbian Uprising
1804–1813 Russo-Persian War
1808–1809 Finnish War
1809 Polish–Austrian War
1815–1817 Second Serbian Uprising
1817–1864 Russian conquest of the Caucasus
1821–1832 Greek War of Independence
1821 Wallachian uprising
1823 French invasion of Spain
1826–1828 Russo-Persian War
1827 War of the Malcontents
1828–1829 Russo-Turkish War
1828–1834 Liberal Wars
1830 Ten Days' Campaign (following the Belgian Revolution)
1830–1831 November Uprising
1831 Canut revolts
1831–1832 Bosnian Uprising
1831–1836 Tithe War
1832 War in the Vendée and Chouannerie of 1832
1832 June Rebellion
1833–1839 First Carlist War
1833–1839 Albanian Revolts of 1833–39
1843–1844 Albanian Revolt of 1843–44
1846 Galician slaughter
1846–1849 Second Carlist War
1847 Albanian Revolt of 1847
1847 Sonderbund War
1848–1849 Hungarian Revolution and War of Independence
1848–1851 First Schleswig War
1848–1849 First Italian War of Independence
1853–1856 Crimean War
1854 Epirus Revolt of 1854
1858 Mahtra War
1859 Second Italian War of Independence
1861–62 Montenegrin–Ottoman War (1861–62)
1863–1864 January Uprising
1864 Second Schleswig War
1866 Austro-Prussian War
1866–1869 Cretan Revolt
1866 Third Italian War of Independence
1867 Fenian Rising
1870–1871 Franco-Prussian War
1872–1876 Third Carlist War
1873–1874 Cantonal Revolution
1875–77 Herzegovina Uprising (1875–77)
1876–78 Serbian–Ottoman War (1876–78)
1876–78 Montenegrin–Ottoman War (1876–78)
1877–1878 Russo-Turkish War
1878 Epirus Revolt of 1878
1885 Serbo-Bulgarian War
1897 Greco–Turkish War

Head scratch.

None of the wars you quoted involved EU member states at the time of the war. What point am I missing?

Edit: ... he said politely.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

Andrew Neil interviews Nigel Farage

Next Friday its Ian Duncan Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA80i3FNAts

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

ChrisFS:

Welcome to the club, those of us who have voted.

I look at it as a horse race, say the Kentucky Derby. Wagering by picking a horse at random might win me some money, but if I carefully sift through all the "experts" reports on each horse, the win/loss record of the horse, then I glass all the horses warming up, and listen to what my friend, who wins much more often than I do suggests, I greatly increase my chance of winning.

But seriously:

Deciding by chance is being less than deligent to all who dutifully marched off to war in the name of freedom. My Father did that march several times.... and later he explained that indeed "War is a Racket" as described by Major General Smedley Butler's speech and book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0

But, having said that, my obligation to my Father, two of my brothers, and millions of other good men and women who also bought the lie of war, and to myself as a Jeffersonian American determined to keep my liberty - even if that means not only reading the "experts" but evaluating their analysis to the best of my ability and then voting for the course that would be best for me and for my country.

Thomas Jefferson:
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Ben Franklin:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

xfiltrate Eat, Drink and Vote wisely





xfiltrate

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

That's up to Touring Ted, it's his thread and poll, and if he wants to reset he can do (click edit poll).

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

POLITICS AND BIKING/4x4s ARE NOT A GOOD MIX

There's a reason why politics are normally banned from HUBB and that is because for every HUBBer with a leftwing view there's another HUBBer with a rightwing view, and visa versa. So it's all too easy for fights to start.

It's all very easy to call Cameron, Corbyn and so on all sorts of names and imply they are in politics for what they can get out of it, but you need to consider the face that many others on HUBB probably voted for them and possibly still think they are OK.

So please, keep the thread polite and concentrate on the issues. And can we please have less long-winded history lessons and unexplained links to stuff.

The alternative is that the thread gets closed in line with the HUBB guidelines...

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Courtesy of The Speccie

"Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant,
owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.


Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea.

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't care."

Share this. Email it to people who might be on the fence. Lets reveal the lies at the heart of remains economic argument. Above all make it stop and VOTE LEAVE

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Nigel Farage has just been rumbled on immigration | Coffee House

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand