View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
|
Yes
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar2-r.gif)
|
109 |
50.00% |
No
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar3-r.gif)
|
46 |
21.10% |
No.. But things MUST change
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar4-r.gif)
|
38 |
17.43% |
I don't care
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar5-r.gif)
|
14 |
6.42% |
Undecided
|
![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6-l.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6.gif) ![](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/polls/bar6-r.gif)
|
11 |
5.05% |
444Likes
![Closed Thread](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/buttons/threadclosed.gif) |
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
12 Jun 2016
|
![Wildman's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/customavatars/avatar26604_1.gif) |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
|
|
Cars are up to 52% more expensive in Britain than anywhere else in the European Union, the latest EU price survey showed today.
But car buyers taking advantage of much cheaper prices on the continent are being obstructed by dealers abroad who are unwilling to sell right-hand drive models to British bargain-hunters.
Today the Brussels Commission warned yet again that the future of the special deal which allows manufacturers to operate exclusive dealership and distribution networks was in doubt unless unjustifiable price gaps are closed.
The deal allows car makers to maintain one-marque only showrooms, fixing prices for different EU markets and obliging car buyers to stick to in-house service centres and warranty provisions.
Technically the arrangement breaches EU rules on free competition, but it has so far been approved by Brussels because of the highly specialised nature of cars which, says the industry, require special sales and after-care service and should not be treated like any other consumer product.
But in return car makers are supposed to maintain keen prices for the same car in different national markets - or at least allow buyers to shop around unhindered for the best deal in any member state.
Now the latest of the Commission's regular surveys of the situation reveals "substantial" price gaps remaining, particularly between Britain and the rest.
It does nothing to improve the chances of the deal being renewed when it expires in October, with Competition Commissioner Mario Monti threatening to scrap the system and expose the car market to the cold winds of open competition.
It shows that the UK market remains the most expensive for 52 of the 81 car models covered in the survey, even though prices have fallen or remained stable in the last six months.
For 18 models sold in the UK, prices fell by more than 5%, but the gap remains high enough for UK consumers to turn to continental dealers.
The Commission is still receiving complaints from British consumers facing obstacles when purchasing a car in another member state.
Many reported difficulties with right-hand drive supplements and long delivery times, and Mr Monti warned: "Manufacturers' behaviour will be fully taken into account later this year when I will present proposals for the future legal framework for motor vehicle distribution, in advance of the expiry of the current Block Exemption."
Today's survey shows price differentials for exactly the same model in different markets of up to 51.6% on an Opel Astra, 48.5% on an Opel Vectra and 33.1% on a Volkswagen Golf.
In the UK prices include the extra cost of British specification, in particular right-hand drive, and are also affected by the high value of the pound.
The Commission says it found that the supplement for a right-hand drive specification model is generally lowest for Japanese cars and highest for cars from the Volkswagen group of VW, Audi and Seat.
Read more: UK car prices highest in Europe | Daily Mail Online
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
12 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
You need to do a lot of legwork for a proper comparison. Taxes are different in the three countries which will count for a lot of the difference.
Also, cars are rarely the same specification. The base UK spec is normally higher, so (for example) will include a radio/cd as standard plus electric windows all round whilst other countries might not. I've twice imported cars from Germany and the initial delight at the much lower price is tempered when you have to add chargeable extras to get it up to the UK spec.
As a quick example, the UK car is shown in Race Red which is a standard colour, but costs 300CHF extra in Switzerland. I couldn't be bothered to check what else was different.
|
Aye it's a nightmare right enough. It's what's called "confusion marketing". Not so confusing is that the basic, no frills Nissan Qashqai produced here in the UK then shipped all the way to Japan sells for £12,791 in that country whereas to us mugs here in the UK it's £17,595! No wonder the motor industry calls the UK "Treasure Island" and no wonder they want us to remain in the protective customs union that is the EU.
Thanks to the referendum and the strength of the £ it has engendered I've just bought a new Toyota 79 Backie with a 4.5 V8 in Cape Town for a fraction of the German price, which is in much lower spec. too. Also got a few new bikes for ~ 40% less than here - they are EU spec too, the KTM made in the EU
I'lll spend the winter over landing back to the UK
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
12 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,474
|
|
Toyota don't sell the 70 series in Europe ![doh](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/smilies/doh.gif) so any sourced in Germany would be from a specialist supplier who have imported them, which would account for a small price differential/profit margin.
Of course to register the SA bargain in the UK you'll need to pay IVA, import duties VAT etc. possibly won't leave much of a saving after all.
Last edited by TheWarden; 12 Jun 2016 at 19:14.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
12 Jun 2016
|
![Tim Cullis's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/customavatars/avatar15097_3.gif) |
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London and Granada Altiplano
Posts: 3,083
|
|
OK, the example quoted by Fastship was a really lazily researched jobbie.
The engines in the Swiss and UK cars aren't even the same spec. The Swiss paint job is cheaper. Plus, the UK price quoted ignores the £1,250 discount shown on the web site.
This is what you get for copying something from elsewhere on t'interweb rather than writing from your own experience
But yes, cars in the UK are still more expensive than elsewhere in the EU and some of this is down to motor companies screwing the consumer. For once it's not the bad guys in Brussels who are to blame (though they allow the situation to continue). If we decided to change to driving on the right--like Sweden did in 1967--the motor companies wouldn't be able to play this game.
__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
12 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SW France
Posts: 304
|
|
Surely the fact that Britain drives on the other side of the road, has a different currency, has a Monarch, speaks English, is an island, isn't in Schengen, doesn't have 2 hours for lunch, doesn't drink ![beer](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/smilies/beer.gif) at work, wants a referendum etc. means that Britain is totally incompatible with mainland Europe and should therefore vote LEAVE.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: E Yorkshireman...in the Chum Phae area, Thailand
Posts: 1,298
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon
So do UK buyers pay more tax because they are in the EU?
I accept that it is difficult to make a direct comparison due to spec. differences but the fact that a car made in the EU sells for significantly less in Switzerland is ridiculous.
|
There is a new European Regulation that came into force on 1st May. If you hire a car in Switzerland you can not drive it into a neighbouring country because the rule bans EU citizens from driving non-EU registered hire cars in the EU. A European commission spokeswoman said: “EU citizens should try to inform the car rental company in advance if they intend to … drive into the EU. I don't know if it will be the same for bought vehicles. What another load of b0!!ocks
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plooking
Fasthsip, that "Abandon Ship" cartoon is priceless! Just love it!
|
It is very clever isn't it? I like those old fsahioned political cartoons. Some people are so imaginative and talented.
You should do as I did - I e-mailed it to my entire contact base. One chap has laminated and mounted it.
some more:
__________________
Last edited by Fastship; 13 Jun 2016 at 13:54.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarden
Toyota don't sell the 70 series in Europe ![doh](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/smilies/doh.gif) so any sourced in Germany would be from a specialist supplier who have imported them, which would account for a small price differential/profit margin.
Of course to register the SA bargain in the UK you'll need to pay IVA, import duties VAT etc. possibly won't leave much of a saving after all.
|
That's true. There are only two places I know that sells 'em Tom's Fahrzeugtechnik & Toyota Gibraltar Stockholdings (TGS) - 4x4 vehicles for aid agencies although the Gib dealer only sells them for export outside the EU. Neither sells the V8 and locking diffs spec. I think ISIS gets the best deal on 79's - dunno where they buy them from tho
Toyota ZA sells a fully specced vehicle but I would never call the 79 a cheap car no matter where you buy, you don't get a lot for your money but for reference the FOB price I paid is £20.4k and the landed price will be £24.139k. There's more to spend fitting it out for the trip tho but.
The KTM I bought is the 1190 ADV R. I pointed out some months ago how cheap ZA bikes were at that time - the FOB price I paid was £6.6k which is £7.9k landed plus shipping. ZA bikes are EU spec.
I wasn't aware of the EU rule for car hire! I keep my ZZR14 at my brothers place in Switzerland and have often rented a car for cross border shopping trips
Whilst on the subject of currencies and Switzerland, at the start of last year the Swiss decoupled the Franc against the Euro and it soared. All the same people saying predicting BREXIT Armageddon said the Swiss economy would collapse - the exact opposite happened, Switzerland is BOOMING!
Thanks to this referendum I've mad a ton of money trading GBP-ZAR, got a few bargains and a great trip to look forward to. Cheers Dave
It's nice to see the counter at the top of the page is now at 100
Vote Leave
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
This is what a Customs Union looks like
It is sometimes hard to visualise exactly what a Protective Customs Union looks like. Here is a simple visualisation of the EU blocking cheaper imports, eliminating competition, protecting the incumbents and limiting your choice.
The truck below is the most expensive truck made in China. It is made in a brand new, state of the art factory. It is also the newest brand. It costs about a half the equivalent German made truck, is built to EU regs. They even make it in right hand drive. We can't buy it here.
The map below where they distribute says it all – the EU is a no go area for these excellent, low cost trucks.
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
A Truly Shocking Video
everyone should see and share this video
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
![Wildman's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/customavatars/avatar26604_1.gif) |
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 478
|
|
What was shocking?
__________________
Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman
What was shocking?
|
I would have thought it obvious, self explanatory in fact.
Under the Representation of the Peoples Act Vote Leave are allowed to campaign, it's their legal right.
As seen in the video stronger in Wayne David MP (Labour) has called the police to make the Vote Leave people close down their two stands but not his own stronger in stand. Also the Police & Crime Commissioner is a strong campaigner for remain too. The Police there have been politicised.
Banana Republic tactics from the panicking REMAINIACS.
__________________
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 98
|
|
Paranoia more like it!
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 98
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship
The truck below is the most expensive truck made in China. It costs about a half the equivalent German made truck, ...
|
There's usually a good reason for that and it's not political or economic. The Chinese may be good at their electronics but cars or trucks or anything similar tends to be poor. Built to EU regs or not, it'll be badly put together, it'll be unreliable and it won't be on sale here because the likes of Volvo, MAN, Scania, DAF and Iveco have proven their credibility for some time.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Jun 2016
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 38
|
|
Should Britain leave the E.U. ???
It will be economic Chris, cheap eastern trucks have been here before and they're rubbish. You'll spend a boat load more on them keeping them on the road.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 10 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
![Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.](/stuff/ripcord/ripcord-logo-250.jpg)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
![Five books by Graham Field!](/stuff/grahamfield/graham-field-2021-280.jpg)
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|