Gove is a very close ally of the PM however as he's also 'justice secretary' which also means he'll see tangible evidence of Brussels interference & meddling.

The so called David Cameron 'deal'
is toilet paper, the 'small print' states no change in current systems as it requires 'treaty change' , the EU doesn't want to reform.






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The Common Market was started for the very best of reasosn, to help build a great Europe after the destruction of WW2, although lets not forget president De Gaulle did his best to keep Britain out of any united Europe for as long as possible, bizzarely cozying up with the Germans.

I am all in favour of freedom of trade and the freedom of movement granted to European citizens, but the Common Market has given birth to a monster called the EU that bears little or no resemblance to the ideals of it's birth.

If I were a veteran of WW2 I would look in dismay at the way Germany has gained economic control of Europe and wonder if it was all really worth it. Germany runs the EU, economically and politically. To have a country like Greece forced to follow the same economic policy as Germany is madness, utter madness. It was this rigidity of fiscal policy in an area of economic and political diversity that destroyed the Irish economy. Years before the crash everyone knew the Irish economy was overheating, but because they were economically shackled to Europe that had entirely different economic pressures.

So in Essence I want freedom of trade, and Freedom of movement for European citizens, but I don't want this monster of bureaucracy, corruption, micromanagement and meddling that the EU has become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez-88_hIrLY

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Well i was undecided, but if i was going to vote (and i can if i want) i would vote out of the EU, i see no benefit for UK to stay in a failed "union"

And if the UK bails im sure others will follow & that will be the end of the EU.

Mezo.

Why call it a monster? Why do the no crowd always use loaded and emotive language which reads like something you'd find in a Daily Mail column? Seems to me a lot of people here just regurgitate puff pieces and opinion. Let's talk facts shall we?

How does Germany run the EU Can you point to what legal structure or framework of the EU has allowed Germany to gain unfair leverage; and provide examples of how Germany used this? Shouldn't the best performing economy in the EU have more leverage than say a weak one? Any facts to back this up?

Are the two separable? By 'meddling' do you mean the legislation on air pollution, river destruction and health I pointed to earlier or did you have something else in mind? Do you think if we vote to leave the Europeans will be so accommodating to give us what we want? i.e. All the benefits and none of the costs? You can't have it both ways - either vote to stay in and pressure through reform or vote to leave and live with the consequences. Why should the UK be given special treatment?

Where do the people who want to leave the EU plan to take Britain once they leave?

Would they just tow the island to a slightly warmer climate nearby, perhaps near the Canary Islands, or do they propose to move it all the way to perhaps the Caribbean? Obviously the Med is out, 'cause Britain would not fit through the Straits of Gibraltar.

I have not been following this topic very closely, hence my unfamiliarity with what proposals are on the table.

Michael

Don;t know but we've got a seat on the UN Security Council so trade should be okay.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

I agree that citing the one of 5 permanent seats on the UNSC that we hold at present would have been better found under the heading of "sovereignty".

However, we do carry wide ranging influence that will certainly impact on how we can negotiate for anything in the future:

The Council of Europe for instance.
47 Member States


+ the OECD

+ the OSCE

To name a few more international bodies.

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Dave

So we hold it, even though we're in the EU? What's your point?

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

We are a world power; much of Europe is not.
(We have held that seat from before we joined the EU of course).

Diplomacy rules, in a sound bite.
However, the EU has aspirations to undertake its' own full-blown version of diplomacy backed up with a standing defence force and all the other accoutrements of a single nation state joined in ever-closer-Union.

Still, Lord Dannatt along with various other retirees from the UK military says it is all OK, so it must be so.

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Dave

The aim & overall objective of the referendum is focused on the whole EU interference, meddling and failure to address serious issues along with reform, the reform proposals had to be agreed by all 27 other EU leaders, with some countries needing the EU gravy train more than the EU needing them.

Personally, and unfortunately I'll wager we'll remain in, the U.K. Has an opportunity to leave & be 'politically independent & self governed' via the forthcoming referendum, our PM's recent attempted negotiations were for diplomatic justifications only & like previous Governments have let the electorate down.

The EU dictatorship exacerbates & avoids reform responsibility and fiscal governance.

We'll still remain EU trading partners and poor scaremongering from some businesses and industries will adjust and continue as its in their best interest.


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The in campaign have the easier task. "All you can eat until Christmas and no foxes" will sell well amongst the occupants of the chicken shed.

These top level business people are all rich enough to buy their way out of the EUs personal restrictions and are in the positions they are because they are used to bending over when their bosses tell them to. The good ones, the real entrepreneurs should be itching to get out in the rest of the world and do their stuff free of petty regulation.

Andy

Boycott Asda and Marks and Spencer is an easy call.
They have been short sighted enough to do the bidding of our PM, whereas other food suppliers have seen fit to stay out of the arguments.

This letter, printed today, is signed off by 1/3 of the UKs' largest corporations which leaves another 2/3 with enough sense to have some level of regard for their customers rather than pander to the government of the day.

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Dave

Once we get past this initial phase of in-fighting of the political parties (well, one in particular), and the stage-managed letters written to the MSM, then we should get down to some informed discourse in the UK.

e.g.
A feasible model for the future of the UK lies some way between Japan (manufacturing and industrial capability) and Singapore (services).
Forget the fatuous, strawman, comparisons with Norway and Switzerland.

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Dave