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Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

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Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
Yes 109 50.00%
No 46 21.10%
No.. But things MUST change 38 17.43%
I don't care 14 6.42%
Undecided 11 5.05%
Voters: 218. This poll is closed

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  #11  
Old 19 May 2016
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Why won't the UK be able to protect ourselves? We have done so in the past and will do so in the future. We will also be able to do all the other things you have mentioned....without hinderance from the EU
I'm not saying that the UK won't be able to protect itself or cope with any of these things but merely that there is an advantage to be had from cooperation. Take trade sanctions against Iran for example: It was just after the EU has embargoed Iranian oil export that diplomatic breakthroughs were achieved. Take the refugee crisis: Cooperation failed and what did it lead to? A dodgy deal with Turkey. But also security: Extradition treaties were a nightmare before the common arrest warrant. And even now there should be far more and not less cooperation in policing. Needless to say how important cooperation and common regulation is in finance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
If people want to come and work and can give something to the country then fine. BUT what is unacceptable is when people come and live in my country and rip of the state benefit system...having the cheek to claim child benefit for a child that is not even in the country...then the EU not letting us doing anything about it, what a load of crap
It would be a valid point, if this was a problem. But it isn't. Yes, there will be people who exploit the system. But you'll find the same for Brits. And the majority is paying into the system and has a job. Fiscally it's a very simple thing: more people pay in than receive benefits (including all kinds of indirect benefits) so it's a win. But when we talk about benefit fraud, why don't we just come up with the simple solution of working on a European social charter? Jeremy Corbyn seems to be thinking along these lines lately. Although I frequently disagree with him, I think he's got a point there. Also, the EU is letting you do quite a bit about benefit tourism: Remember, there will be a benefits ban for 4 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Migration matters when you are only a small island...but that doesn't seen to bother some people. When are the EU going to get it in to there thick skulls..we can only fit so many people on our rock. Unless of course if the plan is to turn the UK into a massive urban zone
You are nowhere near the point of overpopulation in the UK. Yes, the population density is very high. But that's manly because about a fifth of the population lives in the Southeast not because there isn't enough space. Yet London has hugely benefitted from migration. Just compare it to a few decades ago when the population was in decline. And sorry, but the facts just clearly speak in favour of it. The empirical evidence is quite overwhelming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Its not all a bed of roses....Greece have nearly had it, and I for one are fed up of bailing them out. Also Italy may be going in the same direction. Wonder if that would have happened if the hadn't been in the mighty EU!?
And I'm not saying that it is. But Greece was also confronted with a set of austerity policies combined with a reform agenda, that would frankly let Thatcherism appear as a walk in the park. Look, no one would deny that Greece was messing up big time, or Germany for that matter. But there is no point in being vindictive about it. We need to get on with it. And the Greek have actually achieved more than they are often credited for. Well and Italy still has a deficit, yes. But the stubborn focus on deficits is a bit narrow anyway. They also went through some crucial labour market reform. Spain has consolidated its banking sector drastically and now sees good growth, and a fall in unemployment, particularly youth unemployment. France is now finally tackling its overly rigid labour market. And most importantly, your not a member of the Euro area anyway, and will never have to be - you got a permanent opt out. So let's be fair on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Yes we might have to pay a tariff to trade with the EU. But we may get cheaper tariffs from others countries as part of the WTO. We would also be able to do this without the EU telling us who we can and can not trade with and or undercutting our Steel with crap from other countries. I think there are more positives to trading outside the EU, other countries manage fine. Take a look a Switzerland they are one of the if not the richest country in the EU and oh look, they are not even a member
Let's just clarify something about the WTO: It is an organisation to settle trade disputes. The EU is a member of it. As a member of the EU Britain has all benefits of of WTO membership as well. BUT added to that it benefits from no tariffs among member states. We can do this because we agreed an a common set of rules and regulations. Its called the single market, and even the Brexit camp doesn't deny that you won't have access to it any more. And that should worry you. When you look at steel tariffs by the way, you will find that the EU tariffs have led to more than a 90% drop of imports. Sure, one can levy 3-400% tariffs like the Americans do. But what's the point, if you locked out imports already? But then, didn't Brexiters pledge not to tariff anything anymore? Well...

I'm glad you mention Switzerland by the way, because I'm a frequent reader of the NZZ, a leading Swiss daily. So I follow the debate over there closely. And they can't be clearer about the warnings the sent! Following the referendum on migration, the Bundesrat is now struggling to implement legislation that is in line with the so-called bi-laterals. This is a set of rules the Swiss had to sign in order to gain access to the single market. So, just like Norway, Switzerland is effectively an EU member but can't decide on any policies. And with the recent they might've cut themselves out of the single market which is actually hitting their economy already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Anyone would think that we as a country never managed to do anything before the Eurocrates started to take over....well..we managed fine thanks and funny enough we will manage again. Why shouldn't we have different plugs!? They were there long before the EU and are you going to pay for it? Or will that be a grant from the EU (which is not really a grant because all we are getting back is money we put in and quite a lot less) If people don't like the plugs they can always go back home to the land of round 2 pin plugs. Europe could change their plugs! Its a pain to carry the adaptors!!!
Look, nobody is messing with your beloved adaptors and you can go on driving on the left and measure things in cans of thunder and bottles of sunshine. But don't you think there should at least be a minimum of common norms for things to make life a bit easier? Take a printer for example. Would you like a world in which you would have to buy different sheets of paper depending on where the printer was produced at just because one couldn't find agreement on a common letter size? And sorry, the metric system is just better. It just is! But keep your imperials. Nobody really cares in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Why should national decisions be overruled!? Who gave them the right to tell another country what they can and can not do? They are getting too big for their boots.
How can it be a democracy? (a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives I did not elect or choose the people who are running the EU, did you? I don't really have a clue who they are, nor do I care. They are just a lot of interfering people who are trying to justify their position. So if they lay out on the table what their plans are the same as other people wanting to rule countries do..and let the people decide who they want then that would be more democratic
Yes, imagine that? And you know why? Because there are other's national decisions as well. And you can have the decency to respect that! There are policies that are affecting all of Europe (trade). Decisions on this will have to be legitimised by all of Europe as well then. That's what the EU parliament is for. And guess what? Everyone had a vote in that. You may have voted for somebody else than the current commission (I hope you voted at all; and by the way: I have voted for that commission), but a majority in Europe disagreed with you then and you will have to accept that. Those are the rules of the game and that isn't any different in the UK. Funnily enough you could make the same argument against any UK government: "They're not doing what I want, I haven't voted for them, they're overruling Yorkshires council of elders... how dare they? Undemocratic!". But that's a bit childish, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
Yep scrap that too, then it won't cost my country millions of pounds getting rid of scroats from my country who are quite clearly inciting terrorism and causing issues just because they think they will be treated unfairly when the go home or get extradited,,,that is not our problem and they should have thought about that before hand. Again who are they to dictate?
Well, the Greenwald thing was quite bad and I think you should be more concerned about your governments attitude towards privacy and press freedom in many instances (also: think Leveson), but I invite you to review some of their most prominent cases. All on wikipedia. But more to the point, this is just about living up to your own standards. British lawyers drafted the thing. And they are a panel of judges, representing all EU countries (two of them British) by the way. Sounds fair to me.

You might as well say scrap the justice system altogether. Its fantastically expensive and why having checks and balances? People will just do the right think. Seriously, don't be that naive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider View Post
We benefit really well, high taxes, we can't trade with who we want, we pay a lot of money to be a member of a rubbish club then gives us a little bit back saying its a grant from the EU! It also gives a lot of it way to help other countries in the EU..well if you can't cut it then you shouldn't be a member. It sticks its nose in where time after time its not wanted
Yeah the travel is good, we don't need a single currency (why) I change money a lot so getting Euro instead of Thai Baht is not a hardship
YES I will be voting OUT
If folk don't like it they can always go back to where they came
This is a bit like the "What have they ever done for us"-sketch from Monty Python, don't you think?

I mean, hey, in the end of the day it's your decision and a lot of us might actually go back to where they came from. But if you think it solves any of the domestic problems that the Brexiters want to make you believe it does, you're mistaken. Nothing will be solved but a lot destroyed, so not too sure about that.

Also, I'm just giving you my opinion. So chillax!
 


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