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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
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Yes
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109 |
50.00% |
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No
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46 |
21.10% |
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No.. But things MUST change
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38 |
17.43% |
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I don't care
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14 |
6.42% |
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Undecided
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11 |
5.05% |
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFS
This Brexit bollox is no different to any other vote or election thingy. Each side spouts it's own tripe and they hope enough people will agree to allow them to get their way. I have heard many 'experts' say it would be a great move and other 'experts' say it would be a bad move.
I suppose it depends on which liar you choose to believe.
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Listening to tripe and liars as you put it is a choice we have to help us decide which way to vote or not to vote at all
But if you don't vote then you can not whine when things happen that you don't like
Wayne
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider
if you don't vote then you can not whine when things happen that you don't like
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Yip.....and that's why I don't whine about things that happen.
I only whine about the twats who ultimately make the decisions and talk bollox while the public are led a dance akin to the Pied Piper.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFS
Yip.....and that's why I don't whine about things that happen.
I only whine about the twats who ultimately make the decisions and talk bollox while the public are led a dance akin to the Pied Piper.
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Marvelous
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold 
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonerider
Listening to tripe and liars as you put it is a choice we have to help us decide which way to vote or not to vote at all
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Which is why this thread degenerated once people started posting links to all sorts of tosh written by other people. I'm not really interested what 'experts' have to say, to me it's a simple choice between getting sucked into an increasingly federal European state, or remaining independent. I don't need to read 100-page articles to decide which way I'm going to vote. I'd much rather read simple posts stating simple personal thoughts.
The latest European army move is a great example of ill-thought federalisation. With the exception of France and the UK, most countries' armed forces aren't fit for purpose. The shame of the Dutch army's failure at Srebrenica is a moot example. And one British officer described the Bundeswehr's operations in Afhanistan as "an aggressive camping organisation" rather than an army.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
With the exception of France and the UK, most countries' armed forces aren't fit for purpose. The shame of the Dutch army's failure at Srebrenica is a moot example. And one British officer described the Bundeswehr's operations in Afhanistan as "an aggressive camping organisation" rather than an army.
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That has been exactly the goal of the abhorrent pacifists during the last decades. There is no surprise that the armies in most European countries became exactly that. If societies chose that path and acted towards achieving it throughout decades the surprise would be if there remained armed forces in most of Europe (not all for there are a few exceptions) worthy of the name.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
Which is why this thread degenerated once people started posting links to all sorts of tosh written by other people. I'm not really interested what 'experts' have to say, to me it's a simple choice between getting sucked into an increasingly federal European state, or remaining independent. I don't need to read 100-page articles to decide which way I'm going to vote. I'd much rather read simple posts stating simple personal thoughts.
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Basically, sod the facts - vote with simple prejudices. That's the Brexit crowd down to a tee.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically, sod the facts - vote with simple prejudices. That's the Brexit crowd down to a tee.
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Yep...for me it is better than becoming a puppet or is that muppet of the EU 
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28 May 2016
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I fear you're absolutely right... 
Quote:
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"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. (...) The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood."
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- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, chapter VI.
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29 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
I fear you're absolutely right...
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, chapter VI. |
Well the Morons Messiah (Boris) is a historian, that's why he's able to claim he wasn't racist apparently. So I'm sure he's well versed in these tactics. Unfortunately they do work, our government is chosen by news paper editors/owners.
In the end it all does end up being an emotional decision. This thread has deteriorated into lengthy essays spouting so called facts which apart from the odd exception are just intended to support someone's bias mostly "I don't like Johnny foreigner and can someone turn up the volume on Rule Britannia" I may respect the views if they were honest rather than hiding behind "facts".
Does anyone get the irony of posting multiple bar charts, pie charts and figures whilst then claiming every single forecast / economist is 100% wrong?
Anyway the sun's shining and I've better things to do than reading / posting on this
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29 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussG
In the end it all does end up being an emotional decision. This thread has deteriorated into lengthy essays spouting so called facts which apart from the odd exception are just intended to support someone's bias mostly "I don't like Johnny foreigner and can someone turn up the volume on Rule Britannia" I may respect the views if they were honest rather than hiding behind "facts".
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Yip...the number of 'experts' on the hubb is impressive. They know everything. And what they don't know ain't worth knowing. I stand by my original view about Brexit, politics and all that stuff....it's all a load of bollox being spouted by twats.
On a sidenote, that Donald Trump fella...it looks like he's in the 'final' of the Presidents Cup tournament. Something tells me that the phrase 'God Save America' was invented for this exact moment! 
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheworld
Basically, sod the facts - vote with simple prejudices. That's the Brexit crowd down to a tee.
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There are no facts just a lot of speculation so we really have no choice.
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28 May 2016
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I think everyone's view should be a more wide reaching than just the federalisation issue but even so there is much too much focus on the immediate consequences of a leave vote. The Remain campaign is supported mainly by the financial, political and business establishments all of whom believe they have the right to dictate our lives. The Leave campaign is supported by the massive small business community, maverick politicians who are anti unnecessary bureaucracy (which is what the EU is) and economists who have a bit more vision and can see through the smoke screen being created by the establishment.
All the scaremongering by the establishment is just that. Britain will be much better off being able to make its own rules and trading arrangements. If Britain chooses to stay in the consequences in the long term of the "You dared to question our authority" brigade at the head of the EU will be far worse that any short term inconveniences caused by leaving.
I sincerely hope that the independent nature of the British people comes to the fore on polling day.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon
I think everyone's view should be a more wide reaching than just the federalisation issue but even so there is much too much focus on the immediate consequences of a leave vote. The Remain campaign is supported mainly by the financial, political and business establishments all of whom believe they have the right to dictate our lives.
The Leave campaign is supported by the massive small business community, maverick politicians who are anti unnecessary bureaucracy (which is what the EU is) and economists who have a bit more vision and can see through the smoke screen being created by the establishment.
All the scaremongering by the establishment is just that. Britain will be much better off being able to make its own rules and trading arrangements. If Britain chooses to stay in the consequences in the long term of the "You dared to question our authority" brigade at the head of the EU will be far worse that any short term inconveniences caused by leaving.
I sincerely hope that the independent nature of the British people comes to the fore on polling day.
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APPEAL TO EMOTION: In this fallacy, the arguer uses emotional appeals rather than logical reasons to persuade the listener. The fallacy can appeal to various emotions including pride, pity, fear, hate, vanity, or sympathy. The appeal to sympathy is actually a formal fallacy labeled Ad Misericordiam. Generally, the issue is oversimplified to the advantage of the arguer.
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28 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon
... If Britain chooses to stay in the consequences in the long term of the "You dared to question our authority" brigade at the head of the EU will be far worse that any short term inconveniences caused by leaving...
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I struggle with that argument.
Do you honestly think that the EU feels the UK takes them seriously when we already send 22 UKIP MEPs to Brussels?
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28 May 2016
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The main reason the leave campaign has teeth is because David Cameron failed to negotiate a better deal with the EU. This may be because many of the terms of membership of the EU are not negotiable (which is a reason to leave in itself) but in my view, it is more to do with the high handed manner of those in the top jobs in the EU hierarchy. This take it or leave attitude will mean that, if the UK votes to remain, these people will consider themselves even more powerful and the UK will be made to suffer more humiliating loss of sovereignty. Only my opinion.
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