While writing this, out of 71.876 users, 1.986 are active in this very moment! That is just awesome! Only 216 of these that are active right now are members, which is decent, but not entierly awesome (please become a member).

There are are about 90 sub forums with a total of 83.501 threads and 557.114 posts and 71.876 users - an unmatched wealth of information provided in a an equally unmatched structured and easily accessible manner! It is truely magnificent!

Out of all those sub forums, seven has seen a post in the last 24 hours. So what does that mean? First of all, it means that visitors find what they are looking for in the accumulation of information that we all have contributed to over so many years (you won't find it on facebook). It also means that people are posting questions elsewhere. It also means that many people don't share their findings or opinions on HU to the extent that they could and should - which is a shame, because the information, the debate, the opinions - it is so, so valuable - now and for the future!

Lately I have received several suggestions to look up FB groups, rather than to show my patience and give HU users the opportunity to answer my questions. It is worrysome. FB has proven to be a forum killer. The disussions and information gets fragmented across a myriad of FB groups. In addition, the life span of posts are short, and old information is difficult to discover and access. In addition, the community is also fragmented. Last but not the least, it is far more difficult to assess the reliability or value of the information given. In HU for instance it is far easier to evaluate the legacy of each user, amongst other things.

I hope that more people are willing to contribute by being active - also those that are new to HU. Everyone has an opinion on everything - share it! I also wan't users to post here first, and have a bit of patience - the questions will get answered eventually. Also, if you find interesting insights in other places - come back here and share it - it will be appreciated by someone!

I also urge users to become paying members, if only every now and then. Buying HU merch is a great way to show your support with both money and promotion at the same time, as is showing patrionage to their affiliated partners and advertisers. Have you bought the DVD's? They are awesome!

Grant and Susan has invested sooooo much in this community for so many years, and keeps on doing it - and it has not come free to them. All of this to our benefit. Those that are able, and who have found value in HU, should pay their way by contributing a bit of coin and by showing other forms of support to HU and its invested community. HU has been arround for a very long time - we shouldn't take it for granted - there is nothing in this world that is free, and mooching is not cool.

Lastly I hope that users contribute to the community by offering travellers local support - i.e. offering a bed or a place to pitch a tent, offering help with local logistics or advice on the lay of the land, offering bike storage, offer to come to the rescue locally if something goes pear shaped, offering to grab a or a coffee - and maybe even offering a bit of paying work, or helping to find it, to those that need to replennish their travel treasury with a few extra coins. Having support of a community is so important - even if you never end up actually using it.

HU is so strong and magnificent, please help keeping it that way!

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

No arguments with any of that. This site is a gold mine of information and Grant and Susan ought to be applauded loudly for what they've done. When I think back to how we navigated ourselves not only around the issues of geography but of bureaucracy, customs, culture etc it was embarrassing. This place has become a one stop information shop where someone will know if you don't.

I've often wondered why it attracts so many readers but so few posters, but I don't think it's alone in having that issue. The shining light alternative is something like ADV Rider where there's so many posts it's impossible to keep on top of them and you dip in and out more for amusement than information. Facebook is even worse in that respect. It has the advantage of being quick - you generally get someone replying in minutes rather than the hours /days here but, as you say, it's now or never. If this place is a little middle aged in its seriousness sometimes then Facebook is like a baby with a new toy - pick it up, taste it and throw it away. To mix my metaphors the nuggets of gold get thrown out with the bathwater.

I'm not really in a position to do much with traveller support other than offer advice or information but a friend has a much bigger property and often has bikers staying over in spare rooms. He once offered to host a club rally when their venue fell through at the last minute and about 60 turned up to camp on his front lawn. All would have been well except he forgot to mention it to his wife ...

Thank you both VERY much, we couldn't possible have said it better, and it means a lot coming from our members.
I just wrote a response to another great post by Wheelie, and since it may get missed as it's in the Yamaha Tech section, I'll re-post here:

Wheelie, thanks so much for that, it's greatly appreciated, and I agree with the issues with asking on Facebook. Interesting note - maybe - from way back - when we FIRST put up our webpage in 1997, it was just something cool to do, and a way for family to more easily keep up with our travels - except it wasn't, emails were still easier. But, people very quickly discovered us, and sent emails asking all sorts of questions. It didn't take long to realize that they were asking the same questions again and again; "what's a carnet", "how did you get across the border" etc. And thus was born the HUBB in 1998, where travellers can ask questions, get answers from experienced people on the road, share information, and remind themselves that they're not the only crazies in a good way - in the world.

We intend to KEEP the HUBB going as a great place to get answers, as a repository of historical information, and a fantastic place to get inspired. Just reading all the old stories, shipments perhaps from years ago, technical info, how to fix / make anything, all helps people internalize how to solve problems, discover that it IS possible and you CAN travel the world.

So again, thanks for the support! In these tough times we need it.

Take care, stay safe, and PLAN for adventure!

--------------------------------------------------
Please see your control panel at: https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/usercp.php and check out Paid Subscriptions for Membership.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Well, It is a travel forum. And there isn't a lot of travel going on right now. That could say a lot for the lack of traffic. But it's not something that can be blamed solely on travel bans.

Facebook has killed more than forums. It has rooted itself so deeply into our lives with it's dirty data harvesting and mind controlling agenda.. Sure, it's easy to share pics and stay in touch blaah blaah but at what cost ??

I use it A LOT. Most of us do. Way too much. I hate to say I need it for my business and I rely on it a lot to keep in touch with people. I do hate how cheap, shallow and throw-away everything is on FB. And I hate that I'm totally hooked on scrolling like a brain dead moron through my newsfeed without even any memory of what I've just looked at.

However, It's the new evil drug that is NEVER going away.

The only way for forums to survive is to adapt. Or to integrate. Or accept the fate of so many huge forums which have just turned into the ramblings of a few old faithfuls.

A few suggestions......................

The Hubb is an absolute wealth of Knowledge. And it is knowledge that can be searched, held on to and referenced. And the real beauty in a forum is that a reply is 'usually' thought out and considered. Far more than a fleeting reply on a Facebook group.

I think that's a unique selling point that should be pushed more. But push it to where people are listening. Social media ?

I've said it before. Integrate, adapt or disappear. HU has a HUGE Facebook presence. And it's a missed trick not to try and meld them both together. Sharing popular threads on the Facebook page etc ?

Also,

Maybe users should be forced into signing in before they can search ??

Maybe everyone should be forced to sign in before they even read posts ?

How about a mandatory yearly subscription fee. Of like $5.. The price of a posh coffee. But it has to be REALLY easy to subscribe. And maybe offer paid up members exclusive content. Maybe download links to your DVD series ?

Forums like UKGSER charge £20 a year if you want to use some parts of their forum. It's too expensive and I think only really works because everyone on there rides expensive bikes. And I think their subscriptions are WAY down.

I know HU offer membership options. But those options offer no obvious advantages of being a regular user. Who cares how many pixels they can have in their avatar ?

But I think by far, the biggest problem of forums is that they're still too complicated for use on handheld devices. Even apps like Tapatalk are clumsy and faffy. But there is nothing a forum can do about that.


So I think for forums to survive, they need to promote and charge for their exclusiveness.

There's no point having millions of members if none of them contribute anything or even sign in to at least generate a little advertising revenue.


Adapt or disappear....


P.S. I am one of HU's biggest supporters. Everything I say is because I'd like to see it thrive.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

In my eyes has the Hubb one unique point: the Informations are easy to validate. You can track down what a User is writing, it gives you a feeling about how valid they are.

In these Facebook Groups are so much stuff, that it is not easy to see, who is trustworthy and who is not.

Very very important will be stuff like Destinations who are new at Hubb, we all can help to made it valuable.


Ted you have some good arguments, but these above dont work in my eyes, also as a fee each year.

To be open for the public means that many links point to Hubb. That Hubb is more important for the google ranking. If it is behind a registration wall (not even pay-wall), people start to do a "writeup" at their own. Probably with a link back.

Less links back, less people from organic searches.

If you had to register before to read, many will not do it.. It is the start of a quicker end.

The comminication way will always change.. ICQ, IRQ - guess we will see what happens.

__________________
About Overlanding, Travelogues, Equipment
Trans-Africa over the west coast

I agree with Touring Ted that walls of any sort is a bad idea. You really have to stick your foot in here for a while before you recognize how valuable HU is. Even a slight barrier would likely destroy recruitment completely. And having to sign in would also reduce activity. I do however agree that HU is not very good on mobile - but I understand that the investment of time and money required to migrate everything onto a new platform is too big.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of exclusive content or offerings one could provide that would be attractive enough. Remember, it is the users and our community as a whole that is the product here - so the users would have to make part of what they do exclusive to those that pay. In my case for instance I offer every overlander a free bed or a place to pitch their tent, and some small work if the need to replenish their travel treasury with a few coins (hardly anyone has taken up on the offer). I could for instance restrict that to paying members only - thereby urging users to become paying members. However, doing this alone would likely not have much impact. I think for something like that to work, it would have to be done on a systemic level - in other words, Grant and Susan would have to set it up.
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How about this for an idea?

"Pledged Member" (for lack of better project name) - a member who is not only a paying member, but one that pledges to a set of particular HU rules and guidelines, i.e.:

Strive to provide premium local assitance to paying HU members traveling through one's area, or who plan to do so:

• Assist with red tape advice or practicalities
• Assist with logistical advice or practicalities (i.e. storage, mail, etc)
• Assist in matters related to brakdowns (i.e. providing or helping arrange road side assistance, transport og bike and rider, sourcing parts and tools, or finding a place where bike and gear can be repaired
• Assist in matters related to health, injury or even death
• Provide or help find a place to stay (a bed, couch or a place to pitch a tent
• Provide or help find a temporary paying job
• Offer food or drink and a friendly meet up
• Offer local advice
• Offer advice or assistance on matters related to leglities or trouble with local authorities
• Offer your best business discounts to paying HU members
• Offer assistance or advice on matters related to local language or customs
• Offer advice on matters related to local economics (i.e. prices, haggling, etc)

Note that I say "premium assistance". Taking the pledge does not mean that you can't provide similar service to anyone - simply that you promise to go the extra mile for those that are paying members.

There would be no need to provide a membership card or anything like that - this as it would be ery easy to look up another members status on HU.

Looking back to my very beginnings as an overlander, I would have taken much comfort in there being a whole gang of HU members I just knew would go out of their way to help me out if SHTF. It would have been far less scary to take the leap. I would also feel far more humble and connected to the community, as well as feeling obliged to honor the comunity by paying both back and forward - both with money and in terms of following suit in terms of taking on some of the pledge myself (if not all of it). I would be in awe of those that had taken the pledge, and I would have been proud to carry that same badge of honor myself - touting it with a big sticker on my bike and wear the t-shirt. Not only would I be willing to pay a fair ammount for the insurance that being under such an ubrella would mean, I would feel far more obligated to pay my way in general. Not only that, I believe that such a thing would make HU even more atractive and valuable as a whole.

I think it could be done rather easily. Simply create another user group "Pledged member", Gold Pledged Member", or the likes (for lack of better naming) - complete with the right to carry badges, right to buy and carry exclusive merch, etc.

The pledge could also include a set of specific rules of etiquette - i.e. be forthcoming about one's actual expertice on a particular issue one comments (it is easy to be led a stray by the opinions of people who know nothing, but fail to provide that very bit of info). It could also include how one deals with trolls, etc. It could also include a pledge to promote and practice loyalty and being a good HU ambassador. It could include pledges to respect local laws and cultures, promote love and peace, care for the environment, and what not. The point being, a pledged member is something reserved to those that uphold a higher HU comunity standard - including being a paid member.

I think that becoming a pledged member shouldn't cost much, but that there could also be tiers (bronse, silver, gold, platinum, etc).

I also think that pledged members hould get priority and discounts at HU events, etc.

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What do you think? Is it a feasible idea? Should it be passed by Grant and Susan? Maybe create a poll to see who would be up for making such a pledge?

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

I do think a very cheap paid subscription could work. Like I said, £5. I'd pay that all day long. Anymore and I think most people will just use social media.

Personally, I think I contribute far more than I take. But I certainly did use the hubb A LOT when I set out Overlanding nearly twenty years ago. Wow.... Twenty years.

Maybe make it so to ask a question or start a thread, you have to be a paid member ??

But all content which is already posted is free to browse ?

That would certainly make more people use the search function on the site.

And if the search function required a user to sign in then, BAM, you have your members back in and you can sell that statistic to the advertisers.

I think apart from the core membership of old-timers, most people plan a trip, visit the hubb for information, do their trip, then totally forget it existed.

I'm just trying to think of ways to generate cash from the website to keep it going.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I believe timely reminders that it IS possible to contribute by buying a membership help. At least it did for me, and I hope it says "Gold member" under my nick when you guys read this. The people who have available cash and are the type of people who want to contribute to having nice communities will do so if reminded. Not for the status, not for any special benefits, but because it's the right thing to do.

There ARE services that could be offered in the adventure travel space that could attract paying customers (as opposed to community members), but those probably go beyond the scope of this forum. Most people expect community to be free, but don't realise that the free communities they participate in are fleeting, basically useless attention traps.

In short, scroll to the top of the page, click SHOP and support this not because you get something extra, but because you're already get something GOOD.

I've been working in the tech industry since the 90's - working with everything from the absolute biggest (you would know a lot of them) to small companies, including having several startups myself. I've had central roles in my part of the world, incubating much of what all of us take for granted. I've also worked with e-cammerce a great deal - leading and managing large digital transformations of fairly large companies - so I do have some experience in which strategies that are more or less likely to succeed in different scenarios.

What I can say with a very high degree of certainty is that a required login to use a service such as HU will be perceived as a massive hurdle to most - so much that it will deter many from using it unless they absolutely had to, and only if there were no other more user friendly options out there. Yes there are means to make such logins more user friendly, but HU isn't exactly a business where such investments would be a viable proposition.

In the case of HU, there is too much competition - and hence it needs to be as user friendly and open as possible. As for a pay wall, I doubt that hardly any of the paying members of HU pays because they require the extra forum features that such paid membership provides - they do it mostly because they want to support HU, and the added features are just a bonus and seen as a token of gratitude.

When it comes to selling of the data to advertisers and such - it's not worth much. Coscider this if 2% of the users clicks on ads every now and then (its the average), we are not talking about a lot of revenue potential to begin with with so few users. Now if 0,03% of those that see an ad click on it (a fairly high ammount), and if 0,03% of those that click on the ad makes a purchase (a farily high ammount), and the advertiser pays 1$ for 1.000 impressions of that ad (high, but not unusual) - the advertiser would have to have a net profit on that sale of more than a thosuand dollars to break even on that sale. Hence, it would only be advertisers with very expensive goods or services with a very high customer life time value, that could make a profit. As for HU, they would be making nickles an dimes. Now, strategic advertisement where HU is handpicked - this could look a lot different for both the advertiser and HU, but then again HU would have tremendous sales and marketing costs if they were to fill their space. And even then, there simply is not enough users for it to be a good business plan for HU. They take the advertisers they can, but can't make any serious investment to make money on neither advertisement or data.

Like I said earlier - it is the users and the community that is the product. The more users there are, and the more active they are, and the more valuable their posts are - the more product there is, and the more valuable every unit of product also becomes. Hence, one needs to inspire recruitment, activity and quality - walls do the opposite.

I think that Grant and Susan has got it right. They appeal to the good nature of people to contribute out of free will, not out of need. And then they also use the platform to get additional revenue streems (promote their videos, their events, land the occational advertiser or sponsor, etc).

I think that the most viable way to increase revenue is to appeal even better to the good nature of HU followers, as well as provide opportunity for the HU user to pursue their desire to both contribute and to receive recognition/status. In addition, peer pressure has allways been a great motivator to get people to comply with the will of just about any group - we have all experienced it since we were kids, and we experience it today. We have perfectly well experienced the self magnyfying effects of such pressures - it is like a black hole that sucks up everything at an ever growing force. Magnificent things has been allowed to happen due to both peer pressure and the power of convictions changed through great storytelling - including sending people to space... but also horrible things such as genocide and war.

What I suggest is simple. Create a structure that enables people to contribute in an aggreagted and structured manner (the value of all pledged members is greater then the sum of individual pledges), where each contributer gets recognition for their own part.

In this respect, the synergies that lies within a support network comprised of pledged members abiding by similar rules of conduct, holds far greater value than all of the same people going about it on their own and in their own way. Also, a badge indicating your position, as well as a section in the pledges profle page that shows what you have to offer in terms of support - that would enable the pledged paid members to get recognition. Also, if people could leave comments or reviews on that page, with stars showing up in their signature - it might inspire even firther (last might not work so well and would reqire greater investment).

The point is, that by providing such opportunities, you would not take away anything from anyone on HU. Everything that is now is kept - but you would in adition give extra value to everyone (paying and non-paying). There would be a greater incentive to pay and contribute in many different ways.

Now, my original post was never intended to discuss HU business plans - and frankly I have not given it much thought (i just threw something onto the pile as the thread was taken in this direction). It was ment as a call for people to contribute with the platform as it is today, not for Grant and Susan to have to do anything at all. HU is perfectly enough for me as is, and I'm not even sure if G&S neither needs a revamped business plan, or if they have the will and desire to invest a whole lot more time and money into it. Maybe if they get bored from this covid lock down?

So, back on track: Become a paying member, be loyal, be active, be a good promotor and ambassador, etc.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Done - You can now add one more paid up member

And for info the 20 USD was only £15.07 UK money (not even 4 pints in the pub that we cant even visit at the moment - blooody COVID -

Cant grumble at that price..

Timely reminder to support the site

Thanks to all for the great comments and ideas, please keep them coming!
I'm following closely. We GREATLY appreciate the support you've all shown. We are doing our best to make a great resource AND community, and your support matters.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Wheelies idea reminded me of a similar service that has been offered by the Finnish 2cv Club since 1975. They sell a booklet with details of fellow enthusiasts Europe wide who will help out in times of need in a wide variety of ways. This is a paper book @ 5 euros but could be part of this forum accessible to paying members as he suggested.

Wheelie, thanks for bringing this up!

I owe soooo much to this site!!!
I think contributing individuals (not just Grant & Susan, Chris, Tony,...I'm referring to ALL) don't even recognize how valuable their contribution is and how much they ease the challenges travellers experience.

In my case, certain members, selflessly sharing their experiences, unknowingly changed my life in so many ways!
Guess where I figured out how to buy a bike in Chile, ride to Macchu Picchu, sell a bike elsewhere, ride across NA, the Himalayas, SA Asia....
And guess where I'II end up when riding across Africa, Central Asia or taking a boat ride from Iquitos to Manaus.

The HUBB contributed to my life in so many ways. THX for the reminder (to update/upgrade my membership).

THANK YOU ALL

__________________
One life - live it