While writing this, out of 71.876 users, 1.986 are active in this very moment! That is just awesome! Only 216 of these that are active right now are members, which is decent, but not entierly awesome (please become a member).

There are are about 90 sub forums with a total of 83.501 threads and 557.114 posts and 71.876 users - an unmatched wealth of information provided in a an equally unmatched structured and easily accessible manner! It is truely magnificent!

Out of all those sub forums, seven has seen a post in the last 24 hours. So what does that mean? First of all, it means that visitors find what they are looking for in the accumulation of information that we all have contributed to over so many years (you won't find it on facebook). It also means that people are posting questions elsewhere. It also means that many people don't share their findings or opinions on HU to the extent that they could and should - which is a shame, because the information, the debate, the opinions - it is so, so valuable - now and for the future!

Lately I have received several suggestions to look up FB groups, rather than to show my patience and give HU users the opportunity to answer my questions. It is worrysome. FB has proven to be a forum killer. The disussions and information gets fragmented across a myriad of FB groups. In addition, the life span of posts are short, and old information is difficult to discover and access. In addition, the community is also fragmented. Last but not the least, it is far more difficult to assess the reliability or value of the information given. In HU for instance it is far easier to evaluate the legacy of each user, amongst other things.

I hope that more people are willing to contribute by being active - also those that are new to HU. Everyone has an opinion on everything - share it! I also wan't users to post here first, and have a bit of patience - the questions will get answered eventually. Also, if you find interesting insights in other places - come back here and share it - it will be appreciated by someone!

I also urge users to become paying members, if only every now and then. Buying HU merch is a great way to show your support with both money and promotion at the same time, as is showing patrionage to their affiliated partners and advertisers. Have you bought the DVD's? They are awesome!

Grant and Susan has invested sooooo much in this community for so many years, and keeps on doing it - and it has not come free to them. All of this to our benefit. Those that are able, and who have found value in HU, should pay their way by contributing a bit of coin and by showing other forms of support to HU and its invested community. HU has been arround for a very long time - we shouldn't take it for granted - there is nothing in this world that is free, and mooching is not cool.

Lastly I hope that users contribute to the community by offering travellers local support - i.e. offering a bed or a place to pitch a tent, offering help with local logistics or advice on the lay of the land, offering bike storage, offer to come to the rescue locally if something goes pear shaped, offering to grab a or a coffee - and maybe even offering a bit of paying work, or helping to find it, to those that need to replennish their travel treasury with a few extra coins. Having support of a community is so important - even if you never end up actually using it.

HU is so strong and magnificent, please help keeping it that way!

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

No arguments with any of that. This site is a gold mine of information and Grant and Susan ought to be applauded loudly for what they've done. When I think back to how we navigated ourselves not only around the issues of geography but of bureaucracy, customs, culture etc it was embarrassing. This place has become a one stop information shop where someone will know if you don't.

I've often wondered why it attracts so many readers but so few posters, but I don't think it's alone in having that issue. The shining light alternative is something like ADV Rider where there's so many posts it's impossible to keep on top of them and you dip in and out more for amusement than information. Facebook is even worse in that respect. It has the advantage of being quick - you generally get someone replying in minutes rather than the hours /days here but, as you say, it's now or never. If this place is a little middle aged in its seriousness sometimes then Facebook is like a baby with a new toy - pick it up, taste it and throw it away. To mix my metaphors the nuggets of gold get thrown out with the bathwater.

I'm not really in a position to do much with traveller support other than offer advice or information but a friend has a much bigger property and often has bikers staying over in spare rooms. He once offered to host a club rally when their venue fell through at the last minute and about 60 turned up to camp on his front lawn. All would have been well except he forgot to mention it to his wife ...

Thank you both VERY much, we couldn't possible have said it better, and it means a lot coming from our members.
I just wrote a response to another great post by Wheelie, and since it may get missed as it's in the Yamaha Tech section, I'll re-post here:

Wheelie, thanks so much for that, it's greatly appreciated, and I agree with the issues with asking on Facebook. Interesting note - maybe - from way back - when we FIRST put up our webpage in 1997, it was just something cool to do, and a way for family to more easily keep up with our travels - except it wasn't, emails were still easier. But, people very quickly discovered us, and sent emails asking all sorts of questions. It didn't take long to realize that they were asking the same questions again and again; "what's a carnet", "how did you get across the border" etc. And thus was born the HUBB in 1998, where travellers can ask questions, get answers from experienced people on the road, share information, and remind themselves that they're not the only crazies in a good way - in the world.

We intend to KEEP the HUBB going as a great place to get answers, as a repository of historical information, and a fantastic place to get inspired. Just reading all the old stories, shipments perhaps from years ago, technical info, how to fix / make anything, all helps people internalize how to solve problems, discover that it IS possible and you CAN travel the world.

So again, thanks for the support! In these tough times we need it.

Take care, stay safe, and PLAN for adventure!

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Please see your control panel at: https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/usercp.php and check out Paid Subscriptions for Membership.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Well, It is a travel forum. And there isn't a lot of travel going on right now. That could say a lot for the lack of traffic. But it's not something that can be blamed solely on travel bans.

Facebook has killed more than forums. It has rooted itself so deeply into our lives with it's dirty data harvesting and mind controlling agenda.. Sure, it's easy to share pics and stay in touch blaah blaah but at what cost ??

I use it A LOT. Most of us do. Way too much. I hate to say I need it for my business and I rely on it a lot to keep in touch with people. I do hate how cheap, shallow and throw-away everything is on FB. And I hate that I'm totally hooked on scrolling like a brain dead moron through my newsfeed without even any memory of what I've just looked at.

However, It's the new evil drug that is NEVER going away.

The only way for forums to survive is to adapt. Or to integrate. Or accept the fate of so many huge forums which have just turned into the ramblings of a few old faithfuls.

A few suggestions......................

The Hubb is an absolute wealth of Knowledge. And it is knowledge that can be searched, held on to and referenced. And the real beauty in a forum is that a reply is 'usually' thought out and considered. Far more than a fleeting reply on a Facebook group.

I think that's a unique selling point that should be pushed more. But push it to where people are listening. Social media ?

I've said it before. Integrate, adapt or disappear. HU has a HUGE Facebook presence. And it's a missed trick not to try and meld them both together. Sharing popular threads on the Facebook page etc ?

Also,

Maybe users should be forced into signing in before they can search ??

Maybe everyone should be forced to sign in before they even read posts ?

How about a mandatory yearly subscription fee. Of like $5.. The price of a posh coffee. But it has to be REALLY easy to subscribe. And maybe offer paid up members exclusive content. Maybe download links to your DVD series ?

Forums like UKGSER charge £20 a year if you want to use some parts of their forum. It's too expensive and I think only really works because everyone on there rides expensive bikes. And I think their subscriptions are WAY down.

I know HU offer membership options. But those options offer no obvious advantages of being a regular user. Who cares how many pixels they can have in their avatar ?

But I think by far, the biggest problem of forums is that they're still too complicated for use on handheld devices. Even apps like Tapatalk are clumsy and faffy. But there is nothing a forum can do about that.


So I think for forums to survive, they need to promote and charge for their exclusiveness.

There's no point having millions of members if none of them contribute anything or even sign in to at least generate a little advertising revenue.


Adapt or disappear....


P.S. I am one of HU's biggest supporters. Everything I say is because I'd like to see it thrive.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

In my eyes has the Hubb one unique point: the Informations are easy to validate. You can track down what a User is writing, it gives you a feeling about how valid they are.

In these Facebook Groups are so much stuff, that it is not easy to see, who is trustworthy and who is not.

Very very important will be stuff like Destinations who are new at Hubb, we all can help to made it valuable.


Ted you have some good arguments, but these above dont work in my eyes, also as a fee each year.

To be open for the public means that many links point to Hubb. That Hubb is more important for the google ranking. If it is behind a registration wall (not even pay-wall), people start to do a "writeup" at their own. Probably with a link back.

Less links back, less people from organic searches.

If you had to register before to read, many will not do it.. It is the start of a quicker end.

The comminication way will always change.. ICQ, IRQ - guess we will see what happens.

__________________
About Overlanding, Travelogues, Equipment
Trans-Africa over the west coast

I agree with Touring Ted that walls of any sort is a bad idea. You really have to stick your foot in here for a while before you recognize how valuable HU is. Even a slight barrier would likely destroy recruitment completely. And having to sign in would also reduce activity. I do however agree that HU is not very good on mobile - but I understand that the investment of time and money required to migrate everything onto a new platform is too big.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of exclusive content or offerings one could provide that would be attractive enough. Remember, it is the users and our community as a whole that is the product here - so the users would have to make part of what they do exclusive to those that pay. In my case for instance I offer every overlander a free bed or a place to pitch their tent, and some small work if the need to replenish their travel treasury with a few coins (hardly anyone has taken up on the offer). I could for instance restrict that to paying members only - thereby urging users to become paying members. However, doing this alone would likely not have much impact. I think for something like that to work, it would have to be done on a systemic level - in other words, Grant and Susan would have to set it up.
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How about this for an idea?

"Pledged Member" (for lack of better project name) - a member who is not only a paying member, but one that pledges to a set of particular HU rules and guidelines, i.e.:

Strive to provide premium local assitance to paying HU members traveling through one's area, or who plan to do so:

• Assist with red tape advice or practicalities
• Assist with logistical advice or practicalities (i.e. storage, mail, etc)
• Assist in matters related to brakdowns (i.e. providing or helping arrange road side assistance, transport og bike and rider, sourcing parts and tools, or finding a place where bike and gear can be repaired
• Assist in matters related to health, injury or even death
• Provide or help find a place to stay (a bed, couch or a place to pitch a tent
• Provide or help find a temporary paying job
• Offer food or drink and a friendly meet up
• Offer local advice
• Offer advice or assistance on matters related to leglities or trouble with local authorities
• Offer your best business discounts to paying HU members
• Offer assistance or advice on matters related to local language or customs
• Offer advice on matters related to local economics (i.e. prices, haggling, etc)

Note that I say "premium assistance". Taking the pledge does not mean that you can't provide similar service to anyone - simply that you promise to go the extra mile for those that are paying members.

There would be no need to provide a membership card or anything like that - this as it would be ery easy to look up another members status on HU.

Looking back to my very beginnings as an overlander, I would have taken much comfort in there being a whole gang of HU members I just knew would go out of their way to help me out if SHTF. It would have been far less scary to take the leap. I would also feel far more humble and connected to the community, as well as feeling obliged to honor the comunity by paying both back and forward - both with money and in terms of following suit in terms of taking on some of the pledge myself (if not all of it). I would be in awe of those that had taken the pledge, and I would have been proud to carry that same badge of honor myself - touting it with a big sticker on my bike and wear the t-shirt. Not only would I be willing to pay a fair ammount for the insurance that being under such an ubrella would mean, I would feel far more obligated to pay my way in general. Not only that, I believe that such a thing would make HU even more atractive and valuable as a whole.

I think it could be done rather easily. Simply create another user group "Pledged member", Gold Pledged Member", or the likes (for lack of better naming) - complete with the right to carry badges, right to buy and carry exclusive merch, etc.

The pledge could also include a set of specific rules of etiquette - i.e. be forthcoming about one's actual expertice on a particular issue one comments (it is easy to be led a stray by the opinions of people who know nothing, but fail to provide that very bit of info). It could also include how one deals with trolls, etc. It could also include a pledge to promote and practice loyalty and being a good HU ambassador. It could include pledges to respect local laws and cultures, promote love and peace, care for the environment, and what not. The point being, a pledged member is something reserved to those that uphold a higher HU comunity standard - including being a paid member.

I think that becoming a pledged member shouldn't cost much, but that there could also be tiers (bronse, silver, gold, platinum, etc).

I also think that pledged members hould get priority and discounts at HU events, etc.

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What do you think? Is it a feasible idea? Should it be passed by Grant and Susan? Maybe create a poll to see who would be up for making such a pledge?

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

I do think a very cheap paid subscription could work. Like I said, £5. I'd pay that all day long. Anymore and I think most people will just use social media.

Personally, I think I contribute far more than I take. But I certainly did use the hubb A LOT when I set out Overlanding nearly twenty years ago. Wow.... Twenty years.

Maybe make it so to ask a question or start a thread, you have to be a paid member ??

But all content which is already posted is free to browse ?

That would certainly make more people use the search function on the site.

And if the search function required a user to sign in then, BAM, you have your members back in and you can sell that statistic to the advertisers.

I think apart from the core membership of old-timers, most people plan a trip, visit the hubb for information, do their trip, then totally forget it existed.

I'm just trying to think of ways to generate cash from the website to keep it going.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I believe timely reminders that it IS possible to contribute by buying a membership help. At least it did for me, and I hope it says "Gold member" under my nick when you guys read this. The people who have available cash and are the type of people who want to contribute to having nice communities will do so if reminded. Not for the status, not for any special benefits, but because it's the right thing to do.

There ARE services that could be offered in the adventure travel space that could attract paying customers (as opposed to community members), but those probably go beyond the scope of this forum. Most people expect community to be free, but don't realise that the free communities they participate in are fleeting, basically useless attention traps.

In short, scroll to the top of the page, click SHOP and support this not because you get something extra, but because you're already get something GOOD.

The definition of 'active' is difficult to measure; someone who loaded a thread half an hour ago and is still reading it (I have HUBB configured to load 100 posts per page), is of course still active. So the count of active users normally means anyone who accessed the forum in the last hour or so.

Yes, 200+ of those were registered members, most of the other 1,700 were probably web crawlers from Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex, Bing, Yahoo, and many others, who follow links all over the Internet to provide search facilities.

But not to play it down, 200+ is a great number as a snapshot.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

This is a GREAT forum. I purchased the video package and have now watched it three times. Great content, and its helping me plan, organize and get ready to hit the road with confidence. I also plan to renew my subscription, cause this site deserves support. And, I am not using it as much as I will be when I get out there in the dirt......What a valuable resource.

Facebook is a dyeing platform. And I hate using it. The web is not going away. Stay the course - and support it by spending $ here.