Hey all,

So this week I hit a bit of a stumbling block.

I bought an ex-showroom Honda CB500F. I bought it just after passing my license. I really want to go by bike to Africa, some years from now, and I thought I should learn how to be mechanically handy with the bike. I have changed my own tires, pegs, clutch, chain and sprockets. I did my 8,000 mile service myself just following the Haynes manual and using youtube.

The 16,000 mile service has been a real doozy! I managed to change the air filter, oil (but forgot the oil filter, first red flag), and the spark plugs which are not easy to get to at all!

I questioned my decision many times, but perservered until now the engine fault indicator is permanently on. Everything starts fine. Going back through the connectors and looking at removing the ignition coil assembly for a third time I realised I'm in no way equipped for this task. This is a complex machine! I'm very impressed with what it takes to maintain these vehicles.

Colour me humbled and a bit embarrassed about writing this. I definitely overestimated my abilities and underestimated the work.

I have got it booked in for a professional service. I'm happy to pay whatever they charge to look after this thing! Given the CB500X is similarly complex, and this was my intended bike for this trip, I guess field mechanics are out of the question unless I take a college course or something? Does it even matter? Maybe I'm overestimating the likelihood of needing to change an air filter in the middle of the sahara...

It's been a tough few days going through all of this and it has me doubting myself. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, maybe focusing on the wrong things. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Haynes manuals provide a step by step guide to pretty much any mechanical work you want to do on any given machine.
I have no mechanical training but many years ago, when money was tight, I took out the entire engine of my GL1000 in my parents front drive, fixed the alternator and put the engine back simply by following the step by step instructions in the manual - the bike started first time and 4 weeks later I rode it to Portugal and back. I’m not showing off just pointing out that - if I can you can.

Don’t be embarrassed about your lack of skills, you did the service so well done - it will probably be something simple. If it was me I’d ask on a Honda CB forum, I’m sure you’ll get lots of help. Don’t give up on the mechanics - I can pay for the major stuff now but I still do my own servicing and as I said “if I can, you can”.

Thanks Flipflop I had a look again this morning and you were right it was something simple. Definitely learning the limits of my patience with this. Glad to know it'll be worth it

I'm not sure Haynes would be my first choice of manual but if the alternative is nothing then yes, they're better than that. If you've managed to do the stuff you have already then you're well down the road, and that'll cover the vast majority of stuff you're likely to need on a trip. Add in brakes plus some suspension knowledge and you're pretty much there. If anything more serious than that goes wrong on a trip you're getting towards the edges of what's 'roadside' fixable anyway.

Haynes is good in some ways, bad in others ... I've yet to find anything better than them, the factory manuals often assume a larger toolbox and greater mechanical knowledge than an average person has. Sometimes, though Haynes manuals will skip steps that factory manuals spell out, so if possible it's worth having both to hand.

Edit: Given the long service intervals of modern Hondas I wouldn't think it would be too hard to find a qualified mechanic while touring Africa, with a bit of planning to be in a city when it's due. Servicing a smaller single cylinder bike is a lot easier than a CB500X though.

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FreeBSD fan since before it was cool ...

Peter and Kay Forwood rode EVERY country in the world on their first bike, a Harley Electra Glide. With no prior motorcycle experience, they fixed everything themselves at the side of the road, Kay reading the manual and telling Peter what to do.
You'll figure it out, and if not, there's always a truck along that can carry you and the bike to the nearest mechanic! All part of the adventure.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

That's a really amazing story, what an adventure that would have been

I wonder when it will be possible on an electric bike? Certainly wouldn't mind never seeing a spark plug again after that ordeal

Re the service intervals they are a manufacturers thing......your bike can go well past those . As long as u can do the air filter / oil / adjust the chain / mend a puncture u will b good to go . The honda 500 engines are bulletproof.......we rarely see them in our workshops apart from routine servicing .Now if u were talking about Ktm , that would b another matter .

If you turned the ignition on when something was unplugged such as a coil or sensor etc, then you will have activated the engine management light. It's a common mistake. And often needs to be deleted manually.

Often you can just plug it in to diagnostics and delete the codes. And you should be okay.

Or perhaps you've left something unplugged. (sensor in the airbox is a common one with plug change).

If you didn't have the light on before you did the service then unless you've really broken something , then I bet it's something simple.

Invest in a diagnostic kit for your bike. Usually it's just an OBD2 bluetooth reader and the relevant app for your phone these days.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

When I was young it was common that schools with a mechanics curriculum would take on parts of other people's projects for a small fee - like boring out cylinders, rebuilding transmissions, etc. I even did that myself in middle school.

A few years ago I spoke to a neighbor who was a teacher at a mechanics community college. My garage was at the time stacked with old classic Vespa scooters that I thought would serve as great projects for the school. His saddened response was that the schools didn't actually educate "real" mechanics any more - but what the market of authorized dealers demand. What the dealers want is people that can plug in a diagnostic tool and read of which assemblies they need to; unbolt, order new, and to install. They no longer learn old school diagnostics, nor mechanical or electrical understanding, nor any machining or welding, nor to carry out repairs on components - at least not to any significant extent. There is far more money in replacing entire part assemblies than actually repairing or replacing individual parts of an assembly. And, when the diagnostic computers doesn't give the whole picture, your bike will be in and out of the shop - replacing best guess components until they get it right.

On cars, bikes and farm equipment you see the same thing. I've had mechanics replace entire clutch assemblies when an inspection of the old part revealed that only new plates was required. I've had mechanics replace entire transmissions, hydraulic pumps, et, etc - when all that was required was repairing or replacing a dirt cheap part within that component. It makes for a quicker and more costly job, with fewer liabilities from having gotten it wrong - and risk of bad will (because customers are unaware that they are being ripped off).

I have often been far more satisfied with old school bush mechanics that actually understands machines, than the young breed of "professional" mechanics that has never undertaken even a single restoration all by themselves, only ever having done what the computer tells them to. On my recent purchase of a brand newT7 the dealer was to install OEM heated grips (ordered with the bike). They cut corners and didn't use the correct harness that would make it turn off with the ignition (computer probably didn't tell the mechanic to order it). Instead they took power from somewhere else, so that the grips didn't turn off with the ignition. I had to research the issue, tell them which part to order, and then wait two months for the part and a vacant time. I then had to travel an hour and a half both ways during my work time. It would have been far less cumbersome, expensive and annoying, if I made and resolved that error myself. But, because of warranty, I had no other option.

With a manual, a diagnostic tool, and YouTube, a novice shouldn't be much worse than a newly educated "professional" working in a system made for profit maximizing. In fact, as you only have to learn to know one single bike, your own, chances are that you are you in many cases will quickly become more proficient in diagnosing your bike's problem - than a new "professional". Further still, you are likely more motivated to get it right the first time than for someone that is rewarded according to how much they bill per hour spendt - sending your bike back out onto the road without actually having made sure the real problem is fixed, and fixed properly - going in and out of the shop for months at end.

You don't need a mechanic that relies heavily on a diagnostic tool to order components - if you can get your hands on one which is just as good. You don't also need to pay someone to learn by making mistakes on your bike - you can do that yourself, entirely free.

Where you as a noob probably will fall short relative to a professional, is your efficiency. You will research more, and you will be more of a cluts - working in cumbersome ways. You will also lack the frame of reference to actually be able to properly assess the condition of a particular component - at least not as well as someone who has seen a lot of them are n different conditions. But, you will get better over time. Soon you will be able to "read" a spark plug, an oil filter, etc.

This lack of ability to assess the condition of particular part or component will either make you reinstall broken or worn out parts -thinking they look ok, or make you replace ok parts that don't need replacing - just to be on the safe side. This all depends on if you are a "half full" or "half empty glass" type of personality. Similarly it will affect if you order one part at a time until you get it right, or all the parts for all the most probable culprits (the first to minimize costs, the second to minimize risk of your bike being out of order longer than it needs to be because you have to wait for the part you didn't order at the beginning). If you are the latter type of personality, you will get your bike in a better or as good of a condition as the professional. Further, you will probably get your bike back on the road quicker as you don't have to wait ages for a vacant time at the mechanic's, and lastly you will likely still be saving money.

There is also something to be said about having to take hours out of your work day to get your broken bike to a mechanic - maybe long ways away from where you live, at a very inconvenient time to you... and then have to spend time and money getting back home, and then have to pick it up at a different time that doesn't suit you either - vs just fixing it yourself at home.

Authorized mechanics have more specialized tools, but often you can make do without most of these. Many specialized tools makes for an easier and more efficient job, but are often unnecessary. Many tools can also be made at home.

Personally I love the Hayne's manuals. I wish they had come out with them for my new bikes.

The only thing that keeps me from working on a brand new bike is that it can make void any warranty I have on the bike.

My advice - start doing the work yourself. It isn't as incomprehensible as you think. It is cheaper. It's rewarding. It's reassuring to understand. At some time down the road, your gained knowledge and confidence, will help you get out of what otherwise would have been a very sticky situation. Go for it - you can only fail as bad as the pro!

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Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Thank you all for being so encouraging. I've been out again on the bike and everything seems to be running great! Still stuff to do but I guess it's an "ongoing" project.

I couldn't imagine what the inside of a KTM would look like. It must actually cause nightmares!

Thank you so much Wheelie, that provided me with a lot of insight. I feel a lot more confident that I can achieve this as long as I have my health, license, and passport (edit: also a bike)!

I'm definitely disorganised. I spent half of last week waiting for deliveries. I got completely stuck in only to realise 3 hours later that I didn't have a spark plug spanner. I felt like I was losing my mind when looking for all the stuff I misplaced over and over again.

Top tip. Take photos and make notes/drawings, and put components in in separate containers/bags as you dismantle. It is best to both number and name both the bags and notes/drawings as you go - sometimes even labelling and putting markings on the parts themselves. For instance, contrary to your initial assessment, you might discover on the n'th bolt you unbolt, that all the bolts are not in fact identical after all - that some are just ever so slightly different in length. In such a case you would be very happy if you from the get go had been maticulous in making your markings (a pro tip is sometimes to make a simplified drawing of your component on a piece of cardboard, and then punch your bolts into the cardboard in all their proper locations).

Further, for larger assemblies - those which sre comprised of several sub-assembelies - put those containers of sub-assembelies within a larger container. It is too easy to think that you will put things together shortly after dismantling, and that you will remember how everything goes back together.... only to find that life threw you a curve ball and postponed that plan of yours... not for a few hours, but days or weeks, months even if you are very unlucky. Maybe it was a simple case of you unexpectedly finding out that you need to order a part - one which even proved to be out of stock.

If you take extensive care in properly labelling stuff, then when it is time to put it all together again, you simply reverse the process by starting with the highest numbered container/bag/note/photo - working backwards to zero.

Another top tip is to get your hands on torque wrenches and use them extensively. A noob will stand a great chance of ending up regreting not having done so.

In short, it pays dividends to take the extra time and hassle to ensure you have absolute control - especially if you lack experience. If you do so, this mechanics stuff is actually quite simple - most of the time.

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Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

I've owned both a CB500F and X. They are honestly pigs to work on with everything piled on top of everything else and no thought for the space needed to get parts in and out. The bodywork designer must be a world class kumiki champ (although my solution to inserting his work where I've threatened to would not be subtle or artistic)

However, Honda service intervals are a job creation scheme.

Spark plugs - fit iridium and never touch again. The caps and HT last the life of the bike.
Valve clearances - Check at 16000 then never again until you can hear a rattle or have two days to spare.
Anything that says "Inspect" means just check it hasn't fallen off.

You now have a bike that needs a spin on filter every month or two and an air filter at double that if you ride it like Nick Sanders. You can probably double the oil change intervals in Europe and it will suffer not a jot.

You risk more doing a rushed plug change in some hotel car park than just not bothering.

Your bog standard E-bay OBD Bluetooth and phone app works just fine, not that I ever needed it.

Andy

I guess the truth is that anyone who trains as an engine mechanic these days is heading into an industry on a downward slope. Electric motors and battery tech - yes, but internal combustion isn't something you're going to want to invest more training money into than you absolutely have to.


"And, when the diagnostic computers doesn't give the whole picture, your bike will be in and out of the shop - replacing best guess components until they get it right." Too right. I have a friend with a 'new' Skoda car that has an intermittent fault. Its been back to the dealers so many times that the majority of its mileage is there and back, yet they can't fix it. Mixed messages from the diagnostic equipment is the bottom line. They read the codes, fix the issue and say its done, yet it's back the following week.

"I've had mechanics replace entire transmissions, hydraulic pumps, et, etc - when all that was required was repairing or replacing a dirt cheap part within that component. makes for a quicker and more costly job, with fewer liabilities from having gotten it wrong - and risk of bad will". Same thing. Twice in recent years I've seen friends in the US take their cars into dealers with sticky brake callipers. Both times they've been told 'can't fix it, have to replace it' and been stuck with the cost of a pair of new callipers, pads, hoses, and in one case, discs. Asked why the old ones couldn't be repaired, the answer was 'liability, our insurance co doesn't cover us.' So $2000 in place of some seals and pistons. The real reason of course is that it's quicker to swap this stuff over than strip it down, there's more money in it and people are less liable to argue over the bill for new parts than they are over the cost of a mechanics time. My time was my own a month ago when I rebuilt my Land Rover front prop shaft UJs for £25 vs replacing the shaft for £250 but no dealer would have done that. It's 20 mins to swap the shaft, so in and out of the workshop in 30, vs, well it took me a day. An invoice that says "parts £25, labour £250' is going to be a harder sell than the other way round if you don't really know what's involved.


"I've owned both a CB500F and X. They are honestly pigs to work on with everything piled on top of everything else and no thought for the space needed to get parts in and out." And they're not the only ones. It's a day's work to replace the air filter on my 1800 GoldWing. Guess how I know and how many times I've replaced it (think of a number between 0 and 2). How many dealers are going to spend that time on a $10 air filter (don't answer if you're the honest one that would). At least mine's not the later bike where the air bag has to be deactivated first to get to it.

When I first started riding bikes it was normal to spend your weekends with oil up to your elbows fixing something on the road outside your house. Stuff went wrong a lot and if you didn't fix it yourself you wouldn't be getting to work the next day. But at least they had the advantage of simplicity. If you'd been given a Meccano set as a child and built a crane with it the same skills could be used to keep your Norton running. Nowadays though motorcycles are seen as 'leisure industry products' and we're encouraged to 'leave it to the professionals' While there's some jobs I wouldn't do - mainly because of the need for specialist equipment (I farmed out rebores and crankshaft rebuilding recently), the stuff that comes into the service category is not magic. In fact much of it could be designed out by the factories (and much of the 60's weekends in the gutter stuff has been) but where would that leave the dealer network economics.

Don't believe the EV propaganda, the energy density can never be the same as liquid fuels and there will always be applications that need it. 30-50% of vehicles will still be ICE in 2050 and that's a huge market to service. Early adopters and then FOMO adopters are followed by a slower rate or purchase.

The skill set is very similar, EV or ICE, and to be honest its better to start with an electrician and do the windy/oily bits than getting the hammer monkeys to understand where the spark gnomes and other evil spirits go hide.

When I can find an excuse I still train vehicle technicians. There is a problem that the current generation cannot bring themselves to step away from the screen. I've seen an empty fuel tank diagnosed with a laptop. We won't change that, so the solution is remote diagnostics where a specialist in Tokyo does the work and the grease monkey in Tonbridge is just her hands. Before that, AI guided diagnostics can avoid missing the simple steps. We've pretty much just passed the low point in technology vs skill levels.

Disposable technology is the one thing St. Gretas cult should be doing more about. US consumer rights lead and the big business in the EU is still using safety as an excuse, but it will come. Repair or refurbishment will be more profitable than disposal charges, especially when they can't start yet another religion to get all the EV's replaced by steam, Diesel, Atomic or whatever.

Andy