I have recently been reading about a complaint on the forum. It is concerns the problems a traveller endured in a far off part of the world due to the breakdown of his high tech, state of the art motorcycle and the subsequent lack of support he felt he got from the manufacturer.

This is not the first tale of woe I have encountered in regard to the shortcomings of travelling using a vehicle loaded with state of the art electronics and I wonder why people put themselves in this vulnerable position. If, as readers surely do, you wish to travel to and in these places, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to use vehicles better suited to the task. That is a vehicle that is uncomplicated, that can be more easily repaired in the field either by the rider or by a local workshop; one that is not largely tied to being fixed by the manufacturer’s dealer network.

I cannot think of any reason for buying and using a modern high tech bike for adventure travel, unless you are doing it the Ewan and Charlie way. Can anyone enlighten me?

Because they can and want to!
Each of us decides what equipment or machines we like and works for us.
Few take the time to learn about their steeds/kit and rely on others to fix everything when things go pear shape.

Everything we use can break - expecting any support or claims made, usually driven by marketing forces... especially when very far from home can and usually does lead to great disappointment.

I have moved in this direction a while ago by replacing my BMWR 1150GSA for an older and simpler BMW 100GSPD.......when I say replaced, that was because my 1150 was written off in a smash and I saw the 100 for sale in a rather fetching 90's style turquoise and white, a bit like the colour bike I would imagine a shell suited gay porn star would ride.

Then I realised it was simple to maintain and reliable....... as well as being in gay porn star colours.

win, win and win.

I have now moved back to a smaller ( 650 ) but modern bike, because the new bike gets twice the fuel mileage, is simple and and also appears to be very reliable.

The other main reason that I have gone back to a modern bike is because it is also my commuter bike for work, shopping,weekend fun, hunting solo teenagers etc.

And in the UK at least, have been doing so for a number of years.
BMW R 1200 GS UK’s best-selling motorcycle over 125cc - BMF’s Motorcycle Rider magazine

I feel sure you are referring to the recent thread about a Beemer 1200GS in Peru which had a problem; for every one of these that has a problem (which turned out to be a very well known issue that occurred for some years of this bike) there are countless others that complete their journeys with no problems at all.

It is a feature of human nature to hear only about problems - no one writes about things that go well, even including the press.

Footnote: For a second opinion, see post number 62 in here:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ed-know-8332-5

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Dave

Actually, unless you want to ride 10+ year old machines, it's hard to find a decent bike without computers, FI etc etc.

So better get familiar with OBD, FI, fuel pumps and increasingly CANbus etc

None of it is that hard to understand, diagnose and fix; handy riders have fixed their F800GS type bikes with any old available fuel pumps in Africa. Granted immobilizer type problems are harder to work around, but even then there are known fixes and bodges.

Big mistake the OP made was not taking a GS911 with him and not listening to the advice the Adventure community gave him IMHO.

Old bikes are indeed great, unless you do break down with an unfixable problem, and require spares urgently.

As happened to me on my last big trip, the Old 100 GS decided to turn its starter motor into molten slag and a few other nearby parts got damaged as well.

Even though this happened in Albania, and I had to travel through Greece etc until finally get an unofficial repair in Budapest,Hungary....there was no number of bike shops that tried to help and could have got me the spares rapidly.....except, that old bikes like mine are not stocked as spares anymore and have to be ordered in.A newer bike like the R1200Gs could have had a new starter motor fitted on the day in Greece for example.

A perennial discussion point.

What surprises me is not what bikes people choose to ride but the blind faith people many people put in their choice irrespective of whether they are old/new, simple/complex etc. Bikes are complex mechanical, and increasingly electronic, tools - of course they will break down sometimes. The wonder is they don't do it more often. If you can't live with a breakdown and its consequences choose another means of travel.

Many who bemoan problems with a bike (of any make) or dealer service seem to show a singular lack of self-preparedness, a gullibility in accepting the marketing messages of a manufacturer and all too commonly "its someone elses problem to fix it" attitude. If you get your enjoyment from a big expensive bike and want to take it away from its proven support network of dealers, then fine -do it. But also accept that if it breaks down it is going to be a pain in the arse; the local mechanics won't be experienced in fixing it, many dead ends may need to be followed before success and yes YOU have to pay for these both in $ and time. Many times people are putting themselves out even trying to help you so it seems harsh when people then complain about a behaviour which doesn't meet their ideal.

Me, I ride a simple old bike - not because it is any less likely to break down or easier to fix, but because it has less value. I can imagine how much stress a breakdown on a $20-30,000 bike must cause - you have so much invested in it you have to get it home and it has to be fixed at any cost. With my $2000 bike I tell myself at the end of the day if it all gets too hard I can simply walk away, catch the train, continue the trip and financially survive.

Sorry if this has turned into a rant.

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Martin

finally back on the road again


http://awayonmybike.blogspot.com/

Personally I've grown very tired of anyone taking a modern BMW on an "adventure" tour being compared to Ewan and Charlie. The fact is that properly prepped, and if you carry a couple of spare parts, these bikes are generally very reliable. Several years ago I was with a group riding from China to France; mainly R1200GS, a KTM and one old BMW (R800GSPD?). Guess which one was the only one to break down and have to be shipped home from Siberia? Yes, the GSPD, despite having parts shipped for it from Europe, etc.

I think more problems tend to come up if you take a new bike right off the showroom floor and haven't done any research to find out about known weaknesses to correct them prior to the trip.

I think its great that people want to take their 20 year old bikes around the world and certainly agree that there is no need to go out and buy a newer bike to do so. But on the other hand, if you're buying a bike for this kind of trip, I see no reason to limit the choice to something without FI, electronics, etc. Ultimately it is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate for them, is it not?

Absolutely...

Any bike can suffer a terminal breakdown - one beyond roadside repair or even local repair such as gearbox or crankshaft failure but it is fair to say that, whilst it is very unlikely, it is probably statistically more likely to happen to an older bike than a more modern bike.

My issue with the latest generation of bikes loaded with even more tech is that there are so many more elements in the system which, if they fail, stop you from going. I'm not talking about FI and electronic ignition which have been around for years and have become reliable. However as these bikes appear there is obviously a new generation of traveller evolving who doesn't expect to have to know their bike and how to fix it but plans their trip around the dealer network.

I'm from the Ted Simon generation and as he says; it always gets more interesting when you break down. The Charlie and Ewan generation have a panic attack if the battery is flat in the satellite phone.

Haha - had to laugh.
I think that's typical of younger generation to be frank. I can pull engines apart and even work on electronics to some degree, my kids (and grandkids) would stare at it endlessly asking "why isn't it making a noise dad"?

Then again my first bike was built out of a box of bits in the late 70's, that's all I could afford so had to learn. These days, I can't be arsed and will buy new bike or newer bike I should say. On last trip I carried all tools and even the laptop and diagnostics software with me just in case. You cant carry everything, so DHL phone number and credit card would be last resort. As it turned out, worst thing to go wrong was a cheap Chinese battery which I should have replaced in UK before I left.

I'm thinking of the new Triumph explorer for my next trip but it is new and fly by wire and all that ... hmm might be pushing my luck a bit perhaps.

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Steven
Perth to Perth 2012

I ride a Moto Guzzi California. Touch wood it has never broken down. But if it did I would have no use for a guy to turn up in a very flash, expensive van in white overalls, carrying a small case which costs probably more than my bike, and inside an even more expensive diagnostic tester.

But Like a lot of guys on here, I don't intend to ride across Africa. But I would also guess that most of the 1000s of large BMW riders I have seen all over Europe are not going to cross Africa. The big BMW GS bikes have become the 4x4 school run vehicles of the bike world.

I think Ewan and Charlie had a lot to do with it but people forget what problems they had with the bikes because of the size.

My other bike is a Honda 125 Innova. 100kph and 55kpl. We have even done 2 up camping trips with it without any problems. It is an ideal touring bike. The whole riding experience between a big and little bike is like chalk and cheese. You see far more on a small bike, it is easier to park, wild camping is easier, you can often go where a big bike cannot go and it is cheaper in all aspects.

Bike sales are down 80% in Denmark this year. Moped sales are rising a each year. It must say something.

I think we should all ride what we want but Big bikes are not always the best.

Steve

Lumping all electronics together is a bit silly IMHO. Electronic ignition has been here since the 1970's. It is far superior to points. You get the real benefit of not having to make daily adjustments to extend the life of a component that is destroying itself. FI is close to doubling the range/halving the fuel use of the carbed bikes that came just before. It is about settings as the carbed bikes earlier still were more efficient than the later ones, but still an advantage we can buy rather than make. If there is an advantage I can see the point in changing the tools I carry.

Then though there is stuff that doesn't do anything for me. Electric lights are superior to acetylene for sure, but why do I need a CAN module to refuse the start the engine because it's detected a blown lamp? The switch worked fine without. It would be annoying in Munich a trip killer in Mongolia. It is not for my benefit to avoid German fines (and blame the manufacturer if I'm a lawyer), it is a way for the bike manufacturer to sell me a €2 lamp with a 50c chip added for €50 plus fitting. Bad on a road bike, useless on an overland one, not even workable when the dealers don't open 24/7.

They are also trying to reduce the tool kit to the Microsoft level. A modern vehicle and OBD2 reader is easier to use than mucking about stripping off parts to find silly little bits of rubber. The manufacturers making it close to impossible to buy the tool is not acceptable though. If one manufacturer made all his bolts 1/2-inch Whitworth and put 15.6mm AF nuts on them and refused to sell you the spanners, we simply wouldn't buy. When the only way to talk to a BMW is a reverse engineered GS911 tool I find that equally unacceptable. If they would sell me a dashboard add on or service tool, or even something that called Berlin and told me what to do, they would be a lot closer.

Treating the market as though it's stupid will be the death of certain brands. You can only act like Google when the competitors are still university projects, not the case in the bike market.

Andy

I can't argue with any of that; but what of the other manufacturers?
Are they dragging their feet in the field of electronics for motorcycles or are they wiser than those Bavarians and staying clear of the newer technologies and ideas (EFI is a given)?

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Dave

BMW have a problem the others don't. Their marketing is about technology and being German. They have to stay current and pay German wages and the crossover to the car side supports that. The car side is more like Microsoft, millions of drivers who will use their vehicle like their phone and are growing to expect a three figure bill and courtesy car for a blown bulb.

The Japanese big boys can wait and see how it goes, they sell on softer lines of just being there and no one knows or really cares if the bike was made in China or Brazil. They have the depth to bring in all the CAN toys for say a Goldwing or Burgman and use the basic electronics across their Africa market 125's all the way up to the Tenere sized stuff. If the car model makes more money they will change. If not changing brings GS owners to Tigers and Teneres they won't.

The real boutique manufacturers have to follow what their market wants and what the parts manufacturers can supply on cost. Brembo will be happy enough selling Moto Guzzi hydraulic brakes right up until the all the big boys have gone electric and the tooling needs replacing. The only driver will be legislation, hence you will see FI very similar to that on a Guzzi, on a Ural in the next two years. If they stuff up the software Ural owners will be buying new old stock and carb conversion kits.

Edit to add: Shouldn't forget the Chinese. Currently buying what the parts suppliers offer, but probably big enough to drive if they wanted to. I'm guessing the market will be happier with basic electronics from them for a while though.

The BMW servo brake is a good example. Worked in allowing the same hardware across a range, failed because the second hand value made ownership costs insane.

Andy

I'll just give my opinion(s) about the original post/idea...

I am (was actually) in the position to be able to compare as I did in the same year a trip on a DRZ400 and one on a 1200GS Adv.

Big difference in bike, big difference in the mind and a big difference overall in use and outcome.

I totally agree about NOT going on a big trip on an expensive new bike, unless I am sure that there would be "dealers" ie. spare parts available more or less around the countries I am planning on doing. This being said, I sold my 1200GSA and I am now on the road for 5 months with that money on 2 DRZ400E with my wife. The DRZ has a reputation of being reliable, well we found out that it's not as reliable as everyone says it is. Maybe we take them a bit too far but anyway, we had some problems (the piston coming out of the exhaust reads exactly the same as what happened to us last year...) they are really shit on comfort BUT I feel better on them traveling than I would on a big expensive bike.

Indeed, leaving a bike behind that costs you 20K or 2K is a huge difference. At that extend that you have way to much €$€$€$ on your mind all the time and forget to enjoy your trip and that the BEST things that in every trip happened to us, is when one of the bike broke down. (I am writing this btw while waiting as my bike broke down in Ukraine and finally we will continue our journey tomorrow) Also just the idea of "looking" rich on a big bike or adventurously poor on a smaller/cheaper one has is advantages... anywhere in the world!

Thing is, BMW is extremely good in marketing, we all have to admit this. And thing is, that it's human nature to "want" something, ie. a big adventure bike because you think you need it to o around the world...
Thing is, there are in the meantime a lot of people who did it on shit bikes, and had a lot more fun than anyone on a big GS will ever have going from hotel to motel on the road...

We try to do it as much as we can offroad and I won't go on a GS to where I'm heading now. Of course, my but won't hurt and I would be twice as fast, but I wouldn't have seen or experienced what we did now, being on a 400 going offroad or taking small shitty roads in remote places.

There's a market and opportunity for everyone in the world that is willing to go from A to B, that is willing to travel, that is willing to go on an adventure, ... We are all different and we all want something else. The guys on their 20K bikes just want to go from A to B (overloaded) and brag about that once they're back. For them that's adventure... and when the bike's braking down and he can't call for help and it won't ve fixed within the hour, his whole world goes upside down, as this is not what we expected nor wanted!

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