I think banning ICE vehicles from big city's is a good idea, i remember blowing my nose at night after a days work in London & it was black with diesel soot, but a nationwide ban is simply playing politics.

I feel many tree huggers fail to understand how electricity is generated (coal fired power stations) all they are doing is swapping one fossil fuel pollution for another, but it looks clean/green & keeps the ill informed thunberg millennial`s happy.

And besides, you think SE Asia or South America are going EV this century? nope.


Mezo.

In the UK the coal fired power stations have been largely wound down. For long periods of time they are just sat there being maintained. We are moving to greener fuels gradually - gas is less polluting than coal, nuclear cleaner still and wind and solar the greenest of the lot. Realistically we need a fuel supply that can supply the base load and be turned up and down as required. The most likely source globally is, in the long term, geothermal - have a read here.

Geothermal produced electricity could produce the base load power we need - rendering gas, coal and nuclear systems redundant due to their high cost and allowing the production of hydrogen to power vehicles off grid when the power isn’t needed. Solar and wind can be used remotely for places off the grid but obviously can’t do base load.

The thing about geothermal is that it is available everywhere - some places like Iceland it is very close to the surface but it is available everywhere if you drill deep enough. So yes, SE Asia and South America will embrace EV - China makes a large percentage of the world’s solar panels and wind turbines already so don’t be surprised when they leave those countries clinging to outdated technology behind - people still use the horse and cart, but more as a novelty than a serious means of transport. Europe is moving onward to embrace the change - America’s new president is committed to spending very large sums of money on green technology - SE Asia and South America will be coming along as well.

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You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

In Norway where Im from the governments goal is that all new cars sold from 2025 should be electric or hydrogen fueled.
In October 2020 the proportion of electric cars among cars sold brand new was already 61,5 %.

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

That's remarkable. I was last in Norway around 2008, and I don't remember seeing any electric cars at all. (Probably there were a few here and there, but I was trying to pay attention to all those smooth, curvaceous roads.) I guess a lot of the impetus has been high taxes on non-electric cars, along with fuel. Still remarkable.

No in 2008 it probably wasnt many electric cars here...

Yep - very little import fees and taxes on electric cars compared to conventional cars and also electric cars can drive in the bus and taxi lanes which normal cars cant. A huge advantage in rush hours that is! And also much less tolls on toll roads. So there are huge incentives for the transition to electric cars here in Norway.

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

As Jay said, power generation is fast moving away from fossil fuels. Britain operated for 60% of the year 2020 to date without coal fired power. Yes, EVs transfer pollution from the exhaust pipe to the power station but it's a lot more efficient (like 70% rather than 30%) plus there is a lot more green/renewable power these days. For cities I have to admit it's a no-brainer and I can see in the not too distant future in developed countries many cities will become EV-only zones, by law or by heavy tolls. This will give us problems as overlanders who will need petrol powered flexibility, but it's something we're just going to have to get used to I feel.

As for the Millennial tree huggers and Thunbergs of this world, given that our generation has basically plundered the world's fossil fuel resources, melted the ice caps, deforested most of the Amazon and set in motion a set of climate change events that will affect the world for the next century, I think they have the right to be concerned.

The conversion from horse and buggy to ICE started slow--no auto dealers, no mechanics, no fueling stations, no good roads. Once those began to develop, horses became something almost never seen in towns, and not used in serious agriculture for the first time in recorded history. Most people in the US do not commute more than 40 miles a day, few travel 20 miles one way to shop. A couple of years ago the HU calendar had a picture on a lady biker showing her bike to a young child next to a group of yurts. If you looked carefully, there was an electric wire running to the yurts. Sorry, but getting an ICE bike/car fixed will soon be as easy as getting your buggy fixed. Post from an old, very not up to date on the virtual world, geezer.

IMO electrics is dead end route, most likely hydrogen will win in long run but for now I enjoy my diesel car and gasoline motorcycle. What politics say never was right and this time is no different.

There will also be a £30 billion shortfall in fuel duty.

So they're intending on covering that with a road toll system..

And that will be determined by having EVERY vehicle compulsorily fitted with a GPS/engine management tracker. Along with that will probably come compulsory dash cams.

Which means all fun will be totally banned too.
Insurance companies will blacklist you for wiping your nose.

At least I'll have memories of travel freedom.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

And you watch the cost of electric rise, ever so slowly at first, then more, every country in the world relies on that fuel duty.

They will use the excuse they need to raise the cost of electric in the short term to cover the building of the infrastructure (new power stations) & the prices will never go back down, they never do go down.

And yes i`m cynical.

Mezo.

I'm with you on that one. I've even wondered whether the looming shortfall in UK electricity generating capacity coming at just the point when we're being forced into dumping internal combustion vehicles is intended to 'generate' a build new power stations taxation crisis. If nothing else it would be a means to swerve around the anti nuclear lobby. For all the green paint that's been daubed on windmills and solar farms (in the UK ) sitting freezing in the dark with your car battery flat will cause a rapid reappraisal of priorities.

The trouble at the moment is that the cost of electricity is based on essentially tax free domestic use and car charging is piggybacking onto that. It'd be a brave politician who'd say 'your car charging electricity is going to cost ten times as much from Monday and we'll be round to fit the new meter shortly'.

On the other hand, given that 'a week is a long time in politics', the current crew could just be kicking the can down the road. Experience tells me that cock up beats conspiracy virtually every time.

If only the UK could join a trading bloc like everyone else seems to want to - that would be a real boost to the economy rather than, say, leaving one which to date is reckoned to be around £200 billion.

In reality the cost of the roads will get picked up by someone and who better than the people that are using them thereby linking damage to the actual useage. That way a heavy goods vehicle that does 100,000 miles a year pays more one doing 20,000 miles and a car doing 10,000 miles pays more than a motorcycle doing the same mileage. Radical I know, but it may just work. Well until the road transport lobby start whining - the answer to whom should be "you want to keep your costs down, well plan to be efficient and don't drive as far".

__________________
You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

In Boris's inverted political universe it's far more likely to be the other way round - HGVs doing 100k /yr are essential to the economic welfare of the country / support gazillions of jobs / etc etc so get a 'time for technology to catch up' deferral and tax break. Private cars doing mainly the school run and drive to work commute will be hit by a combination of 'get off your a*se and get some exercise' and 'work from home' taxation, and leisure vehicles (like motorcycles) will be shamed off the road by nudge theory moral outrage and 'you're killing the planet' surcharges.

Have an accident on your bike soon and it won't be settled by who was in the right / in the wrong but by who had the best reason to be on the road. 'He pulled out in front of me your honour'. 'Yes but he was transporting vaccines to a care home in his electric truck. You were riding to Tesco / Starbucks when you could have arranged a home delivery.'


for now but ...

Sooner than you think....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415

I don't particularly care what the EcoGoblin or "right-On" governments want to achieve.

I want to get from A to B in as least time as possible with the least amount of hassle.

For the Electric Revolution to happen the following has to happen:


1. The Technology has to half in Price. I'm not paying £20K or more for a battery driven bike, especially as batteries wear out, and are half the cost of the Motorcycle. Battery replacements have to be in the pennies to make this affordable.

2. Charging points have to be ubiquitous, they MUST be as easy to find as a petrol station.

3. Range must get close to the least worthy of touring motorcycles i.e. 150 miles. Current models claim 200 mile ranges but those testing are finding this is not realistic. 100 miles max is the best honest review I can find.

4. Charging must take minutes. Not 40 minutes but 5.


I can't remember where it was, but an experiment was taking place in a S.E. Asia country that gave me some hope.
They had pluggable, replaceable battery units.
At the roadside there were Amazon type lockers. You removed a battery unit from your bike, plugged it into a spare slot and you got a fully charged unit from the "locker".