1Likes
 |

22 Aug 2013
|
 |
The franglais-riders
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,190
|
|
Police cracking down on cycling boxes....
One of my friends got caught yesterday by a police operation during commuting time in London.
Like many other bikers he got caught riding and stopping on a cycling box in front of cars, at a red light.
100 pounds fine and 3 points on his licence. Coming out as a jumping red light offence as the police has no specific "stopping on cycling box" specific offence. Can't imagine that the insurance will be pleased when seeing that description....
So careful guys....
As everyone, I usually try to push forward and get in front of cars, as it seems safer that way, but.... Keep an eye on coppers....
|

23 Aug 2013
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
It is likely that this incident is part of the new powers given to the police to impose on-the-spot fines in order to free up time in the courts.
The option of going to court is supposed to remain in place i.e. I believe those accused can turn down the police fine and opt to be judged in a magistrates' court.
Nevertheless, it would be interesting to know more about the legality of those marked boxes - the marking looks like a pedal cycle (similar to those used to designate cycle ways) so I guess it does not include two wheels that just happen to have an engine attached.
I guess any defence against the charge you describe would have to be based on a definition of where the stopline is located; the one for cars or the one at the front of the box that is marked as reserved for two wheels. If it is the former, then all pedal cyclists jump the lights every time they stop, being in front of the stopline by default; if the latter, then no one can jump the lights by merely stopping within the marked box.
__________________
Dave
|

23 Aug 2013
|
 |
The franglais-riders
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,190
|
|
Well, my friend investigated contesting it, but would cost him a lot of money as he would need to go to court.
Apparently if you are even so slightly ahead of the white line (before cycling box), it is considered as jumping the red light.
In conclusion, just be careful with those "cycling lanes redlight boxes".
|

23 Aug 2013
|
 |
Contributing Member
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 96
|
|
Thanks Maria,
I do it all the time when in London, following the example of the locals
|

23 Aug 2013
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria41
Apparently if you are even so slightly ahead of the white line (before cycling box), it is considered as jumping the red light.
.
|
If that consideration has not been tested in the courts then the police can continue to take that line; come to think of it, this may not be part of the new on-the-spot fines because there have been cameras on traffic lit junctions, to catch those who jump the lights (i.e. nothing to do with speeding) for quite a time.
Jumping the lights is undoubtedly a dangerous act, depending on when exactly it is perpetrated within the sequence of lights; it is no comparison with parking in the box, temporarily, while waiting for the lights to change.
__________________
Dave
|

23 Aug 2013
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bexhill, East Sussex, England, UK
Posts: 673
|
|
Anyone entering the box because of genuine confusion should be told the error of their ways and then simply waived on.  No need for criminalizing otherwise law abiding motorists. Our failed political masters secretly hate white, middle class, tax paying and law abiding citizens...
The local authorities and Highways are responsible for much of this confusion by installing and erecting far too many signs.
BUT - It's pretty lucrative stuff and so it continues....
Evening all.
__________________
Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).
|

23 Aug 2013
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Advanced stop lines or Advanced stop zones - way to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
If that consideration has not been tested in the courts then the police can continue to take that line.
|
I don't know if it has been tested in court, but the related rules have, indeed, been around for a while - and lack of knowledge of the rules is no excuse, as ever:-
Advanced stop zones - how well are they enforced? | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales
Drive Safe, Cycle Safe Advanced Stop Lines - Streets Ahead
Some folks have been talking about this for years!
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ance-stop-line
One of the more interesting inputs to the discussion in there is:-
"I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but nobody seems to have asked why ASLs were invented... And the answer is that it wasn't for bikes.
My understanding is that they came from Sweden in the 1980s, where they found that ASLs reduced the number of pedestrian/car incidents by 70% (a while since I read up on this,so it may be slightly different).
The idea was that there are a few very common types of pedestrian/car incidents:
1) Car stops at a crossing. Another car rear-ends it and pushes it into the pedestrian. Happens surprisingly often.
2) On a dual lane road drivers in the far lane may not see pedestrians crossing, because their view is obscured by the vehicle to their side. By moving traffic back, visibility is increased (cyclists are invisible and so may use the ASL without reducing this benefit).
3) The lights start flashing yellow just before a pedestrian starts crossing... The car driver, foot on the accelerator, carries on anyway and hits said pedestrian.
Whatever the 'blame', they found very real benefits to pedestrian safety from ASLs which is why the older ones are often to be found without bicycle symbols painted on them, and in places cyclists don't frequent such as multi-storey carparks.
So really, whatever the benefits to cyclists, ASLs are worth enforcing, even for people who hate cyclists. After all, we're all pedestrians and none of us like being hit by large vehicles. A year or two back I saw a girl hit by a bus on a pedestrian crossing (mechanism 2). I strongly believe that if it had had an ASL the accident wouldn't have happened"
__________________
Dave
|

23 Aug 2013
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 123
|
|
I don't know why we aren't allowed to in the cycle box too, we are vulnerable road users too.
As someone who also cycles daily in London I am quite happy for the police to fine car drivers who stop past the ASL, up until now a lot of taxis have been completely ignoring it. Having an ASL reduces the number of stupid cyclists queuing up on the left and getting taken out by left turning trucks.
I also think they should be stopping all the red light jumping cyclists too, gives the rest of us a really bad name.
|

23 Aug 2013
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bexhill, East Sussex, England, UK
Posts: 673
|
|
Yet another appalling example of the UK police morphing into government revenue collectors!
Instead of enforcing the things which kill innocent people, these idiots prefer to collect money from hapless motorists confused with too much street furniture and road signs.
Our police have been turned into soldiers (just look at their uniforms now) and our soldiers have been turned into world policemen.
What we really need is more (many more) real traffic cops driving unmarked cars (not over-expensive top of the range expensive ones either). Get out there among us and tug those who flout the rules without giving consideration to the majority of law abiding (but often innocently confused) road users.
These "policeman" are NOT real coppers. I always luckily managed to get out of pointless duties like this. They are your usual "clip board" brigade - more interested in looking tough in front of the people they are supposed to serve than confronting REAL criminals. Besides, it generates additional revenue to pay for even more snazzy police cars!
There a still a few good FRUSTRATED coppers left, but they are getting pretty thin on the ground these days. They are slowly being replaced with timid little girls, 4 ft dwarfs and unfit 30 stone plus officers (honestly, Iv'e seen it with my own eyes).
A few of our brethren need keeping in line too - far too many unlawfully LOUD exhausts being used by bikers. It's not just the Harley Davidson crowd either, it's the hoards of mopeds (50cc) bikes flying around wearing odd looking (and unlawful) expansion chambers! These mopeds have become the bain of our lives here - Flying around in the early morning waking everyone up including small children.
My son was good enough to serve 3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan but apparently NOT good enough to become a policeman! He failed the online pre-selection questionaire somehow????????? He's since buggered off to Germany where he's doing very well.
As I have stated elsewhere it's all designed to: TEACH US WHOSE BOSS!
__________________
Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)
Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|