It's not the TRF's job to advise and update random non-TRF members of lane closures. How are they meant to go about doing so? If a lane is closed, there will be a legal sign at either end of the lane advising of closure dates & the reasons behind it. In addition, many counties have up to date websites detailing all lane closures, the info is out there if you bother to look, the Wiltshire County Council website is particularly good.

I can only speak for Oxford TRF, we are certainly not a "cliquey group", we actively welcome new members and endeavor to get them out on the lanes ASAP. membership has gone from 80 to 150+ in the last 3-4 years.

In this age of £500+ mobile phones & sat navs, £1,000 luggage systems & £1,500 riding suits, £45 for a years membership of the TRF is not a lot of money for a worthwhile cause.

Lastly, we're lucky enough to have Wiltshire on our doorstep, with more legal Byways than any other county, many parts of the country don't have it so good, we appreciate what we have and to that end, I've just donated £500 this evening on behalf of Oxford TRF to the Hexham Lane fund in the knowledge that their target of £10,000 had already been exceeded by over 30%. If they don't use all of the money raised fighting the lane closure, then the balance/remainder goes to the TRF fighting fund to fight the next case.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

So, what is the TRF policy regarding Crowd Funding (CF)?

Was that recent CF a one off event or will it be used again?

If it is to be used again then will the annual membership fees be reduced in recognition of this new source of funds?

Which campaigns are worthy of CF efforts and which should be funded from the fighting fund?

Why don't the TRF publish their knowledge of green lanes now that they are funded by non-members?
These folks do:-
Maps showing rights of way

As a general comment, everything I have seen and heard about the TRF indicates that it is a disparate set of groups, scattered around the country; all very much doing their own thing - nothing wrong with that per se.

After all, it is so easy nowadays to just go overseas to ride some great dirt.
The emotional attachment to a few miles of UK green lanes is not what it once was.

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Dave

All of the green lane knowledge held by various TRF groups is easily accessible. All we do is buy the relevant OS map, plan a route, mark the route on the map or more likely these days, track log it on a sat nav and amend/refine the route where necessary.TRF groups are not the sole keepers of byway knowledge in the UK, anyone can do as we have done, it's only laziness that prevents them from doing so.

As for sharing, we have a set of marked up OS maps for the areas we regularly ride, they are freely available to anyone in the group to borrow and copy. New members are encouraged to do the same.

As for disparate groups, why is that we have ridden with Bristol, Gloucestershire, East Midlands, Devon and Welsh TRF groups? We've taken most of the above groups on our local lanes, encouraged them to tracklog the routes and they've done the same for us. If I want a route for green lanes anywhere in England or Wales, I only have to ask the relevant group. I've also got a selection of routes for Spain, Portugal, France & Italy that have been emailed to me.

If others have already made the green lane knowledge available as you suggest, what is the point of the TRF or anyone repeating, especially when OS maps are readily available, as are sat navs that come with preloaded OS maps for whole of the country?

Riding abroad is great, that's why we're taking another group to Portugal in September for the second time this year and off to central France next spring but nothing beats deciding you want to go trail riding at short notice, getting the bike out and hitting the local trails.

It's not for you to comment on the "emotional attachment to green lanes" of people you don't know.....

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

Stev I wish I was in your region sounds like you are well organised m8, I would have had a better experience with the trf,
When I went out with curtain trf members I was told not to have any sat nav devices switched on, and no info was made available to me from the trf, I must point out that some did but ask me not to say anything,
It's fare to say some regains are run better than other.
I feel I didn't get value for money from my experance

My first experience was not positive, I didn't attend another meeting for a while but gave it another go and then realised you get out of it what you put in to it, hence a previous role as Membership Secretary and currently the Treasurer.

Our view is that if more of us ride the lanes, then it becomes harder to close lanes as there is more history in the form of photos, videos and reports etc proving long term usage of the lanes.

My partner also produces a monthly newsletter full of ride reports etc by our members, can email copies to anyone who wants it.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

It's my view, not others.
When I was young I guess I was susceptible to the emotional blackmail of the usual kind churned out --- - the use it or lose it and, by the way, we are your guardians and you will be cast out into the cold unless you comply and join the club.

Now we have the "what would it be like to green lane without a bike?" approach combined with "give us the money".
Still no answers to my monetary-based questions though; too searching perhaps?

Based on the earlier reply, I have done a search for the TRF accounts (I don't use the verb "to google" however).
It turns out that the TRF are a limited company registered in the UK with considerable assets to hand.
I'll give this some more consideration; maybe post later even.

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Dave

Righto, I've had a rainy few hours so here goes:-

A search in accord with the advice given earlier revealed that the TRF is registered as a UK limited company.
This is probably not news to those involved in the running of the club.
It does appear to have registered offices in both London and Oxford, depending on what website is viewed.

It seems likely to be the case that the TRF leaders - the directors of the company - have conducted some manner of "makeover" (to use a term that my kids tend to use), as evidenced by the new look website and the general air of self-congratulatory postings in the TRF forum.
TRF Forums • View topic - TRF are taking Durham Council to court and we need your help

Continuing the research, the TRF is referenced in the link below in a couple of ways:
1. As the governing body for trail riding in the UK.
2. As having 3000 members.
Trail Riders Fellowship
Both of these statements may be in error of course, particularly the former.

Continuing, 3000 (let's take that figure as "near enough") members x £45 per annum produces an annual income of £135,000.
No breakdown of how the cash is distributed, but the fighting fund is considered to be an important function of the TRF - a key raison d'etre. We might assume that most of this annual cash income is devoted to that purpose.

It does seem to be a healthy income for fighting the dragons at the local authorities and the various other lobby groups that abound in the UK.

Banging away at the search engine indicates that to see the TRF accounts requires an exchange of cash for information, but a couple of sites give some detail of the body:-
https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/l...ers-fellowship

TRAIL RIDERS FELLOWSHIP. Free business summary taken from official Companies House information. Free Alerts. Registered as 05848933
from which we can learn that the TRF has a net value of around £150,000.
Therefore, the recent crowd funding appeal has increased the net value of the organisation by about 10%, all based on social media distribution over a matter of about a month.

OK, it's stopped raining and I'm off out to ride; enough, for now.

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Dave

That's impressive dave, I couldn't get ride info been a member look what you have come up with,
G

You make it sound difficult. I gave you the google search argument to use in post #11 and the information about reserves is in the company check site about sixth down. I found that in under three minutes.

There is only ONE accurate source of information for registered office addresses and that is Companies House. Again, just a couple of minutes job to find it:
TRAIL RIDERS FELLOWSHIP
218 STRAND
LONDON
WC2R 1AT

This is the address designated to receive legal and statutory notices and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the trading address.

Companies House will also tell you (free of charge) that Trail Riders Federation Limited was formed as a limited company nine years ago in 2006.

Although I'm a member of TRF I have never bothered to involve myself in its administration, but I would suggest it's not always a good idea to make assumptions without some real information to back it up. For example, I would imagine the local branches get some of the annual membership income to help defray their running costs.

If you are really interested in the TRF why not become a member?

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Tim,

we don't I'm afraid. The groups are self funded; Horse Events, Riding Days, Guest Speakers, etc.

I'm happy to pay my membership fee even if it was just for the legal back-up (I'm sure I could afford a barrister for about 10 minutes) but through the TRF I have met some of the best mates I'll ever have.

I've ridden with blokes in their 20s and in their 80s, done countless trips to different counties and countries and just pretty much had a shed-load of fun.

It was difficult to stick with it when the NERC act came in and despite lots of hard work, we were shafted and lost all the RUPPs.

Is the TRF perfect ? No, of course not.

I'm afraid that we may not be as welcoming as some would hope. Turn up to a meeting with a "Right, load all the lanes on my GPS so I can ride with my mates on MotoCross bikes and never see you lot of old gits again" attitude and you'll get nowhere.

Good words, similar experience for me, my first TRF meeting was not great. I persevered and was Membership Secretary for a couple of years and put together a Welcome to Oxford TRF pack which was quite successful in getting new members out on the trails. As with most things, if you put something in, you'll get something out of it.

Myself & my partner took a group of another 8 TRF members to Portugal earlier in the year, all had a great time. We run several trail riding weekends a year, £10 donation split 50/50 with Oxford TRF and Wilts Air Ambulance who received £340 last week. Taking East Midlands TRF out on Sunday for the second time in 3 months.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

The second quote may account for the first one, or at least contribute to it.
Why shouldn't some 40 groups scattered across England and Wales (nothing for Scotland or NI, naturally) do their own thing when they have no financial connection to the head office?

I am still reflecting on what I have seen, heard and experienced of the TRF but no time for that right now; Mumford and Sons are heading up the Reading festival.

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Dave

"My banging on" terminology was simply a turn of phrase to reflect the multiple use of WWW links in that particular post; as you say, certainly not difficult.
But, this is really beside the essential point of the thread, viz the recent appeal of the TRF HQ for the general public to fund their activities in the UK law courts while retaining their members' subscriptions within the fighting fund for some other, unspecified, purpose(s).

There is not much light being shed on my earlier questions but, along the way, we have learnt that the individual clubs get no financial support from the HQ - the latter pocketing all of the proceeds of the annual subscriptions it would appear (or maybe the Oxford club is being deprived of their just desserts?? Conspiracy theory for a Saturday night!! )

Yep, I make a point of not using the google search engine, just as I also avoid becoming a customer of, for instance, Starbucks,

I usually reverse that question to something on the lines of "why become a member" and pretty much soon after that the conversation tends to finish.
So, I'll leave it, for now at least: Metallica are on tonight for the festival.

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Dave

So, I popped into the HUBB pub to see if there is any illumination cast onto the new policy of the trail riders fellowship viz get others to finance their efforts.
Nothing though.

Meanwhile, as has been stated more than once, it is a simple enough matter to find the byways (I have just done exactly that in the vicinity of the Ridgeway, an area that I have not ridden upon previously as far as the green lanes are concerned).
I enjoyed "the chase"; the process of riding out and looking for the access and egress points to the various (legal) byways, after consulting my mapping reference linked in an earlier post above.
The rights of way using an Ordnance Survey map

Happy days, ride solo, stop when I like, do what I like (within reason and the law), drink tea when I Iike, depart when I like, return when I like, refuel when I feel like it ---------- you get the idea.

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Dave

So, on a lighter note, does anyone have any green lanes they would like to share, either a file or Coords.

Wayne

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