Overlanders is a quite respectful “tribe” of travelling industry in terms of numbers & market share. However, the tourism & hospitality industry has not been designed to accommodate their needs & expectations. At least, not in all cases.


But lets define first what an overlander is and what it is not. According to Wikipedia:

Overlanding is self-reliant overland travel to remote destinations where the journey is the principal goal. Typically, but not exclusively, it is accomplished with mechanized off-road capable transport (from bicycles to trucks) where the principal form of lodging is camping, often lasting for extended lengths of time (months to years) and spanning international boundaries.

Don’t get confused with the differentiation between overlanders, travellers and tourists. We are all tourists no matter what means of transportation we use. We are all travellers since we have the travel bug inside. The rest is marketing for the travel industry and vanity for those who feel “different” from the rest of the others. PERIOD


However, we would like to focus on the principal form of lodging that mostly overlanders prefer to use which is the camping in any form and possible way.



Fact No1: Overlanders love outdoors. Off-the-grid wild camp or bush camp or dry camp, boon-docking or organised campground with full hookups, you name it. All travellers with mechanized -or not- transport such as camper vans, trucks with campers, mega trucks, motorbikes & bicycles wait for the moment they will pitch their tent or just open their awning, unfold their chairs and table, set up their little cozy camping area, cook their dinner, and enjoy their or wine under the stars (this is quite oversimplified but we have to make it sound as idyllic as possible, no?). Plus, there is no better travel “tribe” to protect the natural environment than overlanders. They love the nature and they have the absolute know-how on how to respect & save it (especially when locals in some less developed or developing countries do exactly the opposite).



Fact No2: Overlanders have invested on camping equipment & travel gear. The hospitality industry has not been designed around overlanders but it does not work the same for travel & camping equipment which nowadays is so advanced & innovative and actually caters for all types of travellers including overlanders. Waterproof tents, portable stoves, roof top tents, waterproof backpacks, pop up roofs, portable solar panels, 4 seasons sleeping bags, air mattresses, you name it! The variety is endless and hopefully the travel gear industry has not been saturated yet -at least in ideas and offers. Plus, the vast majority of overlanders travel in self-contained vehicles or -at least- are autonomous and sustainable for a good amount of time.



Fact No3: Design, invest and run a campsite is not a big deal. OK, it’s another business that has expenses, responsibilities, and of course risks to take. But, if compared to other accommodation facilities that travellers stay like a hostel, a hotel, a B&B, a resort, a lodge or a just a guesthouse, the campgrounds have -usually but not always- reduced start up and running expenses, demand less maintenance and it is pretty easy to upgrade or change them -if needed. On the other hand, just because it is a low-key investment, it’s not a business to make crazy money. Most campsites are small in size compared to big hotels and lodges and so can accommodate less people. Plus, it is usually required from the guests to carry their own camping setup which can vary from a tent to a whole caravan or motorhome!



Fact No4: Overlanders like to live with less. Not all but a good amount of overlanders love their minimalist lifestyle and can survive outside of their comfort zone for a while. Be aware though: the means of transportation is not related to the minimalist travel lifestyle. We have seen people on motorbikes or bicycles carrying so much excess and people on camper vans to travel with literally the basics (and vice versa!!!). In any case, what an overlander needs & basically expects to find in an organized campground is:

• a clean bathroom with hot shower,
• a reliable internet line (if fast, even better) &
• a decent facility to do the dishes (optional*)

(*:The dishes are optional because they are not affecting that much the overlander’s travel routine & well being if missing, compared to the first two.)



After 1.800 days traveliving around the world, two vehicles, more than 112.000 km in 46 countries and 3 continents, we have to say that the accommodation facilities we have experienced is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you are going to get. Some were exceptional and we would love to return anytime while for some others, we would prefer to forget as soon as possible. Some were overpriced, some others where extremely undervalued and finally some were a bargain. Some were filthy as hell but some others were neat, tidy, clean and shiny! Last but not least, some were proper campsites with grass, shady spots, electric hookups, water taps & potable water, clean & spacious toilets and showers, fast & steady wifi connection, laundry facilities and sinks, communal areas and, maybe, a funky bar & a restaurant with delicious food. On the other hand, some were the back yard or the parking lot of a hotel, a lodge or a hostel with all or some of the services that proper campsites offer to their guests. Finally, we have encountered hosts and business owners who were thrilled to accommodate people from all around the world, check their crazy vehicles, listen to their stories, and be proud of hosting Greeks, Americans, Australians, Dutch, Germans, you name it! On the other hand, we met hosts and owners who did not bother at all to make you feel like home and their only expectation was limited to pocket your money just because you are an overlander and obviously you have a lot!


After all, we tend to think that 5 EUR (or 6 USD) per person per night is a fair deal for the overlander and the campsite owner for the reasons & experiences that mentioned above and this should be the universal standard all around the world!



DISCLAIMER: The article is fictional, is not related to the reality, has too many generalizations and has been created to entertain people.

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece

Guess we could go even further and ask what is a fair price to pay for hourly rate of mechanic and offsider in a 'famous' highly-regarded workshop in a large capital city.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

If I recall ... you Pin Project guys are in some sort of truck camper rig? Maybe a UNIMog or something similar?

So, when you "wild camp", it's not quite the same as what Moto riders deal with. You guys just pull over, crawl in the back, fire up the SAT TV or DVD and cook dinner. Lock the Doors and Windows and sleep tight, good night.

Even in my 20's I did not Wild Camp much in Mexico or Central America when riding on a bike... too crowded, too dangerous too uncomfortable. Dangerous? Yes, I knew of travelers who were killed Wild Camping ... and several robbed too.

S. America camping is a bit better, in fact Southern Chile and Argentina are good camping if right time of year. But in a UNImog, doesn't matter if it's minus 10C outside.
Crank up the heat!

Like Cholo, I no longer camp much and stopped Van camping back in the 1970's. (VW Camper Van) But now, when on my bike, I mostly find Hostels, Hotel, Pension type accommodation. This requires good planning and timing and can sometimes mean you're stuck somewhere with no where to sleep. It happens.

And you're certainly correct, just like camp grounds ... Hotels and Pensiones are really inconsistent regards quality, good or bad.

But thanks to HUBB, it's much better than 30 years ago when you were really on your own. Now, I can post up on HUBB and ask specifics about a certain country, town or City or SEARCH and find good feed back.

Amazing what is here on HUBB!

IMO, the $6 should go to Grant and Susan for keeping HUBB up and running and providing a mobile archive and travel agency via internet to keep travelers in touch with the situation on the ground ... and of course, each other.
In this sense, HUBB is, IMO, under utilized ... and under appreciated.

Yeah, these "facts" don't really stack up for me.

I love outdoors occasionally. Sure, I enjoy the ability to pitch my tent in a scenic spot and watch the sun set with a and a campfire. I also really enjoy coming into a new city, finding a language exchange evening on meetup.com or couchsurfing, and meeting a dozen young locals who are specifically there to talk to foreigners. I also enjoy hanging out in the common room of a hostel, hearing others' travel tales and telling my own - and the fact that I'm on a bike and having a very different experience from the majority of backpackers there, only makes me more likely to get a free .

Sure - but as a motorcycle traveler, the gear I've invested in is the stuff that's acceptably comfortable/waterproof, but still packs down small enough. Space on the bike is at a premium and that's where I will invest money. This means that unpacking the camp gear and setting it up, then breaking it down, is annoying. If there's a low-effort, low-cost alternative available, I'd rather leave it packed.

Compared to what? A three-star hotel? The campsite owner has invested into buying a piece of land that's convenient for road access, but is also scenic; instead of turning it into condos, they invested in bringing in electricity hookups, boilers, probably at least a few wooden cabins, and all of that requires maintenance. Certainly no less maintenance than somebody renting out a spare room in their house on AirBNB, where the incremental cost is just an extra load for the washing machine for the bedlinen.

The CAPEX of setting up a campsite might be smaller than that of building a hotel, but the OPEX won't necessarily be smaller, especially because labor costs are a massive factor. And a campsite is only making revenue in the high season!

You know you're on a mostly-motorcycle board, right?

Also quite reductionist. Overlanders like the experience of travel, and the ability to easily find the company of like-minded travelers. A campsite or hostel can be a better place to find such company than a five-star hotel, but if I could afford a private room with my own shower every night, I would take that over a tent without hesitation, and I think most people would as well.

If you think there is a universal standard of prices to be had between Mexico and Norway, you are crazy.

I tend to agree - however, the thread is a decent one that has prompted some thoughtful responses, so far.
It deserves to be within some other part of the HUBB (maybe "questions that don't fit in anywhere else") rather than the "no useful input required" pub.
Why?
Because it tries to address the varied aspects and questions related to why people are out there on the highways and byways, albeit restricted to the single aspect of "where one lays one head for the night".

It does remind me that I paid 38 Euro for a single night on a camp site in the Netherlands last year - why?
Because I had been travelling for about 15 hours at that point, it was about an hour before nightfall and it was about the 3rd or 4th camp site that I had looked at 'on the road' without pre-booking.
What I got for my money included access to the swimming pool and the kids play area (!) and a personal washroom/toilet facility i.e. that site had a self contained facility provided for every camping pitch (of which there were 100s) and the site was full (of families).
Each of those recently constructed washroom facilities was immaculately clean and included provision of what amounted to a personal washbag of toiletries, just to illustrate the standards of the whole camp site.

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Dave

I think you missed the point and maybe there is some sort of misunderstanding.

I am not in a UNIMOG or mega truck. I am travelling in a Toyota camper van with a bed and a kitchen. We dont even have a toilet inside.. and if you think that its not important for the guys, ask my partner who is traveliving 6 years non-stop WITHOUT a toilet!


To be honest, the article is about a fair price for what is offered to ALL OVERLANDERS in an organized campground.

Obviously, I mentioned dry camp/ bush camp/ wild camp for the sake of my analysis BUT the main point was what we expect and what we deserve as OVERLANDERS in an organised campground.

We personally have met overlanders on motorbikes who have a golden membership on Booking.com and pre-book almost all their stays BUT they carry super expensive/technical travel gear & equipment just for the night they will wild camp or they will stay in an organised campground.

Plus, the common picture I have experienced all these years of travelling is heavy-loaded motorbikes with camping equipment. If you take out sleeping bags, tents, air mattresses, portable stoves, cooking equipment etc. then you definitely have more space! Plus, you save some good money for this private room!

Definitely a motorbike equipment cannot be compared with the one in a camper van BUT somehow you are self-contained as well and you can enjoy some well being in an organized campground -or even one night in the bush.

I am not arguing or fighting back.. I am just trying to have a constructive discussion in one of the biggest overlanders' forum.

Plus, I tried to write up something funny, of course with some generalizations, for the sake of humor that would provoke some laughs, ideas and so on.. No hard feelings, no arguments..

After all, we are at the same boat, no?

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece

I think you are trying to compare different things.. and mix up some facts that have no relation..

To find a nice camping is a "luxury", to do a repair in a mechanic is a necessity, sometimes urgent!

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece

So if I understand correctly the main thrust of your first post, you feel that most sites charge 'overlanders' too much money to camp?

It seems to me that most of the world is a market economy, and the suppliers of the product will charge what they think the market will carry. If you think the rate is too high, you seek out an alternative in the market. If there's no alternative, well, sadly, it is what it is.

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Bruce Clarke - 2020 Yamaha XV250

Perhaps this was intended to be one of the humorous bits, but if serious, it really shows you live in a fantasy world - and I wonder what notice you take of your surroundings as you travel around.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Why you are so critic Tony?
Why you think I am in a fantasy world?
Did I criticized the way you travel and your viewpoints?
Did I wonder what you think about your travels?

I do respect we are different, I dont care how you travel and I dont have any intentions to judge you.

Why you judge me from an article?
And you somehow try to relate this article with the iOverlander story that nobody is aware?

Why?



Honestly, it was intended to be a humorous write-up with some facts, some truths, some oversimplifications, some generalizations that I wanted to share with the OVERLANDERS community no matter of the means of transportation. No discrimination against motorbikes or bicycles, no better-bigger-longer-shorter etc.

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece

Hmm, what do you mean by "deserve"? Why do you think overlanders deserve anything just by virtue of being overlanders?

If I put myself in the theoretical shoes of a campsite owner... I don't especially care about overlanders as a source of business. Unless I am running a highly specialized site like Motocamp Bulgaria, overlanders are people who come in for one night, leave the next night and never come back. And when they do come, in that one night, they are probably doing a lot of laundry, using up a lot of the hot water to wash off the road grime (even if I charge per minute in the shower, the hot water is still limited, and if other customers don't get any - they are angry at me), and quite possibly even doing oil changes on their bikes! Now I am worried about maybe having to deal with oil stains on the ground. Oh, and all this time they are complaining about how expensive the campsite is!

Nah, my best customers are the families from the nearest big city who come for a week and keep coming every summer.

The one advantage overlanders have as customers is that they are unlikely to be loud and party on into the night. They'll probably just crawl into their tent and sleep.

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Overland travelers, and especially motorcycle travelers, get a massive advantage in terms of goodwill from people they meet on the road. It's a very common refrain about how nice everyone is when you're traveling. Heck, with rare exceptions, motorcyclists get goodwill and good karma everywhere...

Just this weekend, when I crashed my bike on black ice in the forest, the local tow truck guy came out, brought my bike to his garage, let me keep it there for three days until I got a hold of a new clutch lever and footpegs on Monday, and didn't charge me anything! He used to ride himself when he was younger, and he was entertained that I was the first bike he'd ever had to pick up, even though he'd been a rescue driver in the area for decades. I think he also appreciated that I did as much of the hard work myself, showed him how to properly strap down a road bike without damaging anything, etc. I brought him some barbecue stuff from a high-end butcher in the city that I like, as thanks.

That goodwill is not intrinsic. Yeah, people are always nice to us - but those people have their own lives and their own problems, all of them will go back to their boring lives and annoying jobs, and will go back to that everyday level of petty assholeness that almost everyone has. While they are around us, they are living vicariously, they are enjoying being involved in the travel lifestyle in some way. They are contributing to the smooth working of the travel community that is so important, but every such transaction is valuable to them too - they get a shot of romance and escapism.

Here's the important part: we need to be mindful of this and always give our helpers what they need.

Part of it is being humble and appreciative. Part of it is being as little trouble to them as you can be. Part of it is being the great storyteller, the great guest who always has great stories and is engaging to talk to. They invite you to their home and to the bar where all their friends hang out, because they have been having the same conversation with those spouses and friends for the last ten years. Your job is to entertain them, to make this night different and better.

That bottle of Bombay Sapphire that I picked up in duty-free for my friends in Auckland was more expensive than a hostel bed would have been, but I got to stay on Waiheke Island in their beautiful home, have gin & tonics with them at sunset on their deck, and swim on their beach with their dog.

It's not limited to overlanders, but moto travelers are an especially good source of romance and escapism for people. Our air of personal freedom and engagement with the road, but also our vulnerability and sacrifice of comfort, give us an extra dose of goodwill.

We don't deserve anything. We take, and so we must give back. There is no overlander's right. There is an overlander's privilege. The traveler's goodwill is a precious, limited, and public resource in the same way that unspoiled wilderness is. And in the same way, we must enjoy it responsibly.

NO!!! Sleeping and breathing should stay free. I wild camped in more then 90 countrys for many years all around the world i never payed for sleeping. Those are humans rights. Its our planet so we should be allowed to pitch our tents everywere.

Of corse if someone preferes some luxury extras he can pay someone do make those whishes come true but just because some holiday tourist seems to own too much money they should not try to destroy traveling for others.

For 5 Euro you get a lockable room with wifi + your own shower in Asia and India. We rented one at my birthday. Paying 5 Euro every day just for sleeping would ad up to 1825 Euro more per year. Thats requies two months more of working. Its like bying two bikes or many flights. No way me and other real long term travelers would accept that!

I guess thats why franchise hubb meetings have become so expensive that many real travelers cant attend them anymore but more and more BMW people with no travel experience are coming out of their office. Using advertisemend to finance it would be better. Even if you give a talk one has to pay 45 Euro to pitch a tent + 104 Euro for my girlfriend sleeping in the same tent for just one weekend chating with other bikers. Not talking about petrol getting there and food wich is includet in most of the other, way cheaper motorcycle meetings. Those $6 should be shared to all the people producing the content and sharing their experiences here for free

Hey everyone, I finally found the guy who has the certificate that lets him decide who is and isn't a "real" anything! We can shut down the Internet now.

I thought the point of the HUBB meetings was to get more people without travel experience into the community, and give them the confidence and the benefit of others' experience?

If I am an advertiser, why would I pay Grant and Susan to show ads to you, if I know you're not going to buy anything?

True but its nothing if experienced people who give the talks etc feel riped off and dont come anymore.

Because you can sell anything to couples who pay 208 Euro for one weekend camping with adventures people and listen to their storys. Even three different hammers to pitch a tent You dont beleve it? I have seen it This forum is a gold mine with thousends of employees working for free for Grand who then charges high meeting prices wich are bad for the community. Cloudserver and traffic are dead cheap these days. There are many automatic ad networks such as google adsense that could easy be used to finance this. Returning back to the topic: Also many other people have started to treat overlanders like ATMs. Very sad. Its not travelers helping travelers anymore. It all changed to big bussiness...

Well. I guess I'm out of the real adventurer's club.

I ride a BMW and like a hot shower.

i cant even.

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Gene - http://www.RideDOT.com