I find it odd the US government has stayed out of this. Maybe they are just waching how the EU handels terrorists problems over seas.

In all truth the terrorists are alwas going to win if the French pull the race the terrorists win, if they do not terrorists kill some riders and win, if the French send in troops the terrorists cry boohoo and the rest of the word hates the French and terrorists win.

The terrorists are not only willing to die for there ideas but want to, there is no way to beat that. Some day we will blink and the terrorists will win there will be a world war.

Or we can just kill them all.

I'm sorry... why on earth would the US Government get involved? Do they have some sort of monopoly on dealing with Terrorists / Freedom Fighters / Religious Fanatics? Perhaps if they looked at recent EU history they'd see we'd been dealing with them for an awful lot longer.

Sorry slightly terse.

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When has the US Government stayed out of anything? The USG sees something they do not like sanctions and troops are not soon behind reasoning has nothing to with it.

Thats just it the now EU dose have a long history of dealing with killings and bombings. They do not seem to go off there nut.

long rant from here down

For example take Cuba 50 some miles off the US cost. The US has had an embargo on it before I was born. I cant go there. If I do (and the US knows about it) I can go to jail. They say its to stop the flow of US dollers in to Cuba but its legal for a ExCuban to send all the money he want there and go there 2 times a year. If your Cuba and want to spy on the US how cool is that. The US dose this because Cuba is some how a terrorists state. I can go on and on about how nuts the US embargo is but you get the idea.

Iran wants a nuke and a reactor. The US is considering first strike against them before they can get it up. Iran has more than enuf uranium for a dirty bomb and has had it for years.

Iraq always been unstable the US gose to war and thinks it can win the harts and minds of people taught from berth to hate us. Oddly enuf it was Iran that gave the intel the US need on Iraq and Husain right before Fat Head calls them a terrorist state and the enemy.

Any of this sound like a good idea? Look at it this way I cant go places I want to because my government wont keep its nose out other peoples dirty bits. I cant change it because (well I only get one vote and dont live in a state that matters for USA federal government) the only other people that can get the job will do the same dam thing. Home of the free and brave my ass. There both agest the law now.

"why on earth would the US Government get involved"

Matt, the americans are already involved under the auspicess of the pan sahel aggrement and if the last 50 years have taught us anything it's that the americans think a) that they know whats best and b) if there's trouble they want to be in there first
The following link is to an old post but worth reading all the way through

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ling+artefacts

Watch out for those 'food parcels'[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Chris/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/IMG]

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Chris
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"Never have a stupid argument with an idiot - he gets a lot more practice than you"
there I go again
not too hard really

"Do they have some sort of monopoly on dealing with Terrorists / Freedom Fighters / Religious Fanatics?"

unfortunately for the rest of the world, the US does have a monopoly on terrorism. So they have a finger in pies as far a field as ethiopia to uk. they have a major influence on policy. which for uk people should be a worry. at least puppet blair has gone.

Suspected French tourist killers questioned in Mauritania
2 hours ago

NOUAKCHOTT (AFP) — Two Mauritanian suspects and three alleged accomplices arrested in Guinea-Bissau for the December murders of four French tourists have been placed in custody, a legal source said Monday.

"They have been in detention since Saturday evening," said the source, who asked not to be named but added that the law provided for up to 15 days custody for offences "related to terrorism, serious crime and state security."

Two of the three suspected killers were extradited on Saturday, along with three other Mauritanians arrested early Friday by police in Bissau, after a manhunt extending over several west African countries, aided by French intelligence services.

They have been questioned in Mauritania by a state security and terrorism panel and will be referred to the state prosecutor to be charged when police have finished their preliminary inquiries, a source in the prosecutor's office said.

Police manhunts for the three men believed to have carried out the December 24 attack in Mauritania's southern Aleg region, in which four French people were shot dead and a fifth wounded, led to the capture of the two in Guinea-Bissau's capital, but the third is still at large.

Guinea-Bissau investigators said the two men arrested confessed to having fired on the French adventure tourists, and expressed "no remorse" at having killed "infidels and American allies".

One of the murder suspects, Sidi Ould Sidna, told journalists just before boarding a military flight from Bissau to Nouakchot that "Guinea-Bissau will pay dearly for having mistreated God's fighters".

A special Mauritanian police commission is probing Al-Qaeda links, but the authorities have issued no official comment on progress and the two men, plus the three accused of helping them, are being detained in secret.

Both murder suspects had previously been arrested in connection with the extremist Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), which in January 2007 affiliated itself with Al-Qaeda.

Ould Sidna, born in 1987 in Nouakchott, was acquitted in July 2007 of charges relating to the recruitment of young Mauritanians to fight in Al-Qaeda's name in Somalia, police said.

Ould Sidi Chabarnou, born in 1981 also in Nouakchott, has been arrested several times without ever standing trial.

The three alleged accomplices were arrested on Friday evening in Bissau as they "filmed French (security) officers," Guinea-Bissau's deputy director of police, Edmundo Mendes, told AFP at the weekend.

"These arrests are the result of a vast operation led by teams from our overseas security force," said a French security official.

For several years now, French intelligence agents in the region have sent regular bulletins to Paris on the former GSPC's activities.

Eight other Mauritanians suspected of having helped the killers and who were arrested soon after the probe began in Aleg were also still in detention on Monday, a source close to the inquiry said.

The Al-Qaeda-linked group is said to count some 500 armed men, 400 of whom are active in Algeria with another 100 located in the Saharan desert zone between Mauritania, Mali and Niger.

The roadside killing and an attack on a military base in north Mauritania two days later, which left three soldiers dead, led to the cancellation of the Dakar 2008 motor rally across the Sahara.

The Al-Qaeda-affiliated group claimed responsibility for the attacks on Mauritanian troops.

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Matt, You Obviously haven't seen the Thunder-birds Parody film "TEAM AMERICA- World Police" made by the same guys who made Southpark.

Hilarious......BUT OH SO TRUE!

Martyn

Thanks for posting that.

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Chris
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"Never have a stupid argument with an idiot - he gets a lot more practice than you"
there I go again
not too hard really

Why do we continue to give in to terrorists threats. Each time we give cave in to their threats, we've been terrorized, and they have achieved their objective.
Obviously, these fanatics desire an Islamic world; each time we capitulate we bring them closer to realizing their objective. Now they don't even need to commit acts of violence. When we live in fear all they need do is tell us what to do or what not to do and we will obey unquestioningly. They've already won.
Without the essential ingredient of our own fear, terrorism is useless, that's why it's called terrorism. When do we decide to take a stand? What's going to happen when the terrorists demand we cancel the Olympic games, or the world cup?
Each time we give in to their demands we give them a victory, we give them 'ground' that will be extremely difficult to to regain.
I feel that canceling the rally was an error in judgment based on fear. Remember, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself".

I have always believed that you can never beat terrorists, although like everyone else I am not happy to see the Dakar cancelled, but what could the rally organisers do?
What would have been said if the terrorists 'brought down' one of those big Dakar planes, or any competitors were shot, blown up or kidnapped, when it was known a threat had been made against the rally, it is so easy for the Dakar armchair followers to say it should have gone ahead, but if you were asked to ride across a section of desert that may or may not be mined, would you do it?...think not.
It all comes down to possibilities, and it was possible that the rally could have been attacked, and it is also possible that the Olympics, World Cup or any other big sporting occaision could be targeted.
The World we now live in post 9/11 is one where we have to take notice, look around you at work,social gatherings etc, it's all about risk assessments, insurance and 'covering your back'. Who would ever take the decision after a threat to say. "FK em the rally goes ahead?" either someone very brave or totally stupid.

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Never confuse the map with the journey.

Geoff, Dave,

Both of you are absolutely right. The trick is to try and strike a balance to steer through these threats, mitigate where possible, but not be diverted.

I maintain that the choice to go ahead with the Dakar should have been down to the riders and drivers. They should have been fully briefed on the concerns and asked to make their own minds up. I bet that the majority would have gone ahead.

The problem that we have these days in our own comfortable world is that we've forgotten that freedom ain't free. Maintaining that freedom does mean taking risks, sometimes at an individual level. This is why the Rally participants should have been consulted, rather than leaving the decision to organisers which were at the receiving end of strong arm lobbying from fearful armchair strategists and politicians in Paris.

I'm sure that the Mauri gvmt and army would have moved heaven and hell to do what they could to ensure security, as would the authorities in Western Sahara. Indeed, an opportunity for improved cross border cooperation between two rival countries may have been lost.

One of the things that I've always liked about the travel and overlanding side of life is that even though risks are sometimes taken to complete a journey or country, people who would possibly not otherwise often see westerners get exposed to us and mostly in a positive way. We may not set out to influence hearts and minds, but we do leave an impression with the people we meet. I hesitate to use the term 'ambassadors', but in a small way we are. We show the quiet faces of ordinary people from our countries. Faces that are masked by the sometimes catastrophic foreign policy decisions of our Governments.

If we stay away, then sometimes all that's left is the propaganda of those who would wish to do us down. Fear and suspicion is fostered and in a few extreme cases radical views can gain a foothold.

Cancelling the rally gives those negative views a firmer foothold.

Therefore measured risks should sometimes be taken, if only to provide a more positive view of our society which can be generated by those of us who reach out to other societies by the nature of our travel. 'They ain't all bad' is a better view for citizens of developing countries to hold of us. Better that, than let anti western radicalism have a free hand to form opinions.

Freedom ain't free, but simple things, like travel and mixing with other cultures and peoples means that it doesn't have to be that expensive either.

I just hope that the Dakar cancellation hasn't made life for us 'independants' just that tiny bit more awkward. (though going by the Plymouth/Dakar Rally field reports, Mauri is still just fine for travel)

Well, that's enough of my armchair ranting. In 10 days I'll be in Mauritania with Barbara and the GS. It will be interesting to see if anything has changed since our last visit.

Regards

Craig

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Call it the Lisbon to Dakar Jihad. Maybe they will donate money?????

I maintain that the choice to go ahead with the Dakar should have been down to the riders and drivers. They should have been fully briefed on the concerns and asked to make their own minds up. I bet that the majority would have gone ahead.[quote]


It would not have just been down to riders/drivers, how about all the support crews, and the plane and helicopter pilots?. With such short notice it would have been a major logisitcal headache, negociations need to be made before next years rally also becomes another farce, saying that, there is still no guarantee that any 'splinter' groups will not make any threats.

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Never confuse the map with the journey.

Looks like something may be happening with the Dakar 2008 after all. Following the email from ASO to everybody on the Dakar mailing list, it's just been announced on Spanish news that there will be 3 phases in 2 continents starting 18 April. No more details were given.

i'll be watching that with interest!

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Dean