Hi,

This post is regarding getting Carnet de Passage for overland travel in Middle East. The motorcycle will be purchased in Yemen.

I am about to purchase a motorcycle in Yemen that I want to take overland till Republic of Georgia. THis will involve going through countries like Iran that require Carnet de Passage. So the question is not about personal safety. It is only about how to get Carnet in Yemen.

I know it is usually issued bu your "national Aotomobile association". I asuume if that is where you buy and register the vehicle. I am a US resident, my license is from New York - so how do I get this Carnet if the bike is from Yemen? Is it done through embassy somehow? Is it done from the local country - Yemen? I have a passport from Republic of Georgia, but I have not lived there for 14 years. So as a US resident, I should be doing this somehow through US?

I know nobody will have answers about Yemen in particular, but how do you usually get this Carnet if you buy the vehicle in the country other than your own? Any other hints will be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

Since you are buying the bike in Yemen that's where you would normally have to get the carnet. It is irrelevant what other countries you reside in. You need to contact the Yemeni Automobil club, if there is one. If all else failt, check out the AIT web site, link on the left under Carnet. However, I haven't found this site very useful... But, at least it will give you all of the local member organisations.

If there is no organisation issuing carnets in Yemen then you will have a major problem. The French automobil club told me that they will issue carnets for vehicles not registered in France if there is no local issuing agency. However, you will need to speak French and I suspect that you may have to go to Paris to organise it. Contact phone number on the same Carnet page on the left here.

Good luck,
Peter.

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

Thank you very much for your help. Doing it in France is a good hint - I do go there a few times a year. That is if they would be willing to do a Cranet for a Georgian person with American license living in Yemen and only visiting briefly in France. But that should be still easier than Yemen - they have never registered a bike to a woman.

ATT site is not very helpful, and I can not easily call them from Yemen. Would you know exactly what this Carnet involves? If I buy a bike in Yemen, drive it till Georgia, and dispose of it either in Georgia or Russia (neither of which require Carnet as of ATT website), and I never return this bike to Yemen - do I have to pay anything for that?

Irina
As long as you get an ‘in’ stamp and ‘out’ stamp on your Carnet for the requisite countries then you can you leave your bike in another country and return the carnet to the issuing organization. They will refund your deposit (but not the cost of issuing the carnet).

My example:

Nationality: British
Residence: UAE
Bike Registered: UAE
Carnet issued in the UAE
Bike: BMW R1150GS (bike value influences carnet deposit)
Documentation Fee: 1,000 dirhams (275 dollars)
Deposit: 20,000 dirhams + cheque for a further 20,000 dirhams (11,000 dollars total due to visiting Iran)

The carnet was stamped in and out of Iran & Turkey. The bike is now in Europe, the carnet was returned to UAE Automobile Association, the cash and cheque were returned to me by the Automobile Association but not the issuing fee.

By the way, re: “they have never registered a bike to a woman”

Your bike registration and your carnet are two separate hurdles. Good luck.

Stephan

Thank you very much for your help.

I just went to try to buy the bike, and also to try to sort out the registration issues. So it turnes out that they are not giving out any new tag numbers in teh whole of Yemen. Also, none of the new bikes currently on sale have cleared customs. Which means that they can not be registered either. Bike were baned up to the election a month ago. They are saying it will be couple months till they clear customs - but that may as well be 3-4-5 months. And the tags are on hold indefinetly.

THis does not prevent them from driving the bike though. I can buy one and drive regardless. The police gave me an honest Ramadan word that I will not be stopped anywere around Yemen for not having a tag or registration. I would use it in Yemen for next 4 months. But then I guess it means that if I want to get a bike that I can take to Georgia around February - I have to buy an old bike, over two years ago that is already registered and has a tag.

Basically they have no clue as to how to deal about taking these bikes out of the country. THey are also saying to take an unregistered bike out with the letter that the customs is not cleared - and pay the customs in Oman and also register it in Oman. Does it make any sense? Can you even cross the border like that, and can you show up in a country with unregistered bike and register it there? I assume I need teh registration and a tag for the Carnet, right? If getting Carnet in Yemen turns out impossible (as I suspect) - do you suppose I can get one as I go through Oman for example? Is it doable through distance - in anther country for example? I sound confused because I really am.

Also, do the counries that you cross influence your deposit? Do you have to specify exactly what countries you are planning to cross? And going through Iran really involves 10,000 deposit??? How is it cheaper than paying deposit an the border and then claim it back when you leave?

If you can help me with any of those million questions, I will really appreciate.

Only a resident (with a residency visa) can register a bike in the UAE. I would guess it’s the same in Oman.


Yes, the countries that you cross influence your deposit.

Yes, you have to specify exactly what countries you are planning to cross.


Yes, going through Iran involves a big deposit for an expensive bike. It depends what you are riding.


Is it possible to pay a deposit at a border and then claim it back when you leave? Even if it is, I wouldn’t think of paying a large sum at one border and expecting to get it back at another. I would strongly advise you not to contemplate that. That’s what the carnet is for.
Stephan

Taking an unregistered bike across the border into a neighbouring country may be possible through some tentative agreement between the two countries in question, but you won't be able to go anywhere else. You need a registration document that LOOKS valid and is readable (i.e. not in Arabic script). I don't know what a tag is, probably some tax sticker, so no, you don't need that outside Yemen.

Where you live you will possibly get away with creating a registration document yourself. You have to judge for yourself whether this will be a problem in the neighbouring country. After that nobody is likely to know what a Yemeni rego looks like.

To be on the safe side, why not buy a used bike that has all the paperwork?

The AIT web site is even more useless now, as the list of member organisations is now password protected... Probably a server misconfiguration.

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

Thank you again!

By not issuing a tag - I meant the license plate. They are not giving out any more license plates. At the present - they do not mind if bikes ride around without one. They are saying within Yemen it would not be a problem. I have million reasons to suspect this is not the case - at least not the case outside the capital. Foreigners are not allowed in many parts of Yemen without a permit as it is. People on the numerous checkpoints are very incompetent. Seeing a woman through a checkpoint on a bike will be such a sensation, I envision many complications already, especially without a registered bike with a license plate. It is not just one checkpoint - and its over. It is like one every 20 km in some places. And there is also getting this bike outside Yemen eventually, taking it till Georgia as I want. Can you just cross the border without license plate??? Or get Carnet without license plate? Or buy somebody's license plate?

What is the worst that will happen without Carnet? I will have to pay deposit that I will have to claim back on teh other border, right? How long would I have to wait - is that days, months?.. I would almost rather do that than leaving 10,000 dollar deposit in Yemen... If I do manage to get Carnet in Yemen - that would be yet the biggest surprise this country has brought me in last one year. Mostly likely I will not be able to get one here at all. What is this Carnet - is it one standard international document that looks the same everywhere? Or is it all very different, issued in different countries?

THe problem with buying old bike is that there are really no decent bikes here. It is not like India or some part of South America. Bikes are transport of the poor, and they own mostly ancient diapidated Chinease bikes, never meant to go far. Or if they are Japanease, they are really really old. Indian bikes are considered a big luxury. Should I be thinking that good used Indian bike (if I find one) is better than good new Chinease one? I guess I should be sensible and minimize the chances of getting stuck in the Empty Quarter of Oman or in Iran, right? In Yemen I can at least reason with them somehow, I do speak Arabic.

THank you for your advise again. In case it is not obvious - I have not done this before, or even owned a bike.

Irina
I don’t think any country in this region will let you across the border without documentation including a licence plate - and rightly so. My bike was stolen in February and I would hate to think that someone could openly cross an international border with it without having official proof of its origin. Things may be fairly flexible within Yemen, but certainly by the time you reach the UAE you would be expected to provide documentation.

As an example, vehicles registered to foreigners in the UAE cannot leave the country (except to Oman) without either an export licence plate or a “siaha” [tourism] document listing the countries to be visited.

Yes, the carnet is a standard international document although there may be differences in appearance. You cannot get a carnet without a licence plate. Which organisation would issue such a document? Nor can you buy someone’s plates except in an illegal transaction. Sorry to sound negative but there are reasons why documentation is required.

Don’t give up but I advise you to do what can be done legally. You wouldn’t want to get to a border and then be refused entry. Stephan

Sorry about your stolen bike. I have a clue where it might be - I went to the Bike suq today, so all the bikes in Yemen get here from Dubai through Saudi desert. Meaning smuggled. I went to police today - they said it is perfectly fine to buy one and ride it, even will give me a letter stating they are perfectly fine with this. They found it very amusing that foreigners want to make everything always oficial.

So I bought one today and I will have three-four months to try to get it cleared through customs. (It is brand new). Meanwhile I can ride it in Yemen. Even if it clears the customs, I am not sure if I can get the plates, as there have been none for the last three years. Most of them in Sana'a have no plates. If I manage to do all this, including some kind of plates, even if temporary - I am still skeptical about getting Carnet in Yemen.

So if nothing works within four month, when I will be leaving Yemen, I guess at that point I will have to sell it in Yemen, and try to buy one outside. If I was to buy one in UAE or Oman for example - purely for export - I should be able to register it, right? With some kind of export plates or something. So at that point and in that case, would I be able to get Carnet there, or I still have to be a resident? I should be able to do this while being a tourist in transit, right?

Also, the guidebook that I have says that you can not cross Oman border as a woman that is alone. If you are alone it has to be in a public transport. Do you know anything about that?

Thank you very much again

Irina
If you see a good-looking XR400 with a large tank, steering damper and Protaper bars please let me know...

Congratulations on getting a bike. What did you get? Whatever happens, you should have fun on it in Yemen for 3 months.

I don’t know about Oman but in the UAE I believe only residents can register a vehicle even for export. A close friend bought a used bike from BMW here but had to register it in someone else’s name to get the licence plate, carnet and ‘siaha’ to travel to Europe. As a tourist he couldn’t do any of those official things here.

I don’t know anything about crossing the border alone but I bet you could get around that somehow. Stephan

You mentioned buying the Carnet in France...

The price of the Carnet is equivalent to 100% of the value of the vehicle, except for Iran (150%) and Egypt (250%, I believe).

The value of the vehicle is called "cote Argus" (Argus rating) but you have to buy the book or pay online to get it. There is another rating system that will give you a very close value, and that is free at: http://www.lacentrale.fr/lacote_origine_moto.php

For a new vehicle, the value is calculated as the original price minus 15%.

The cost of a Carnet "should not" be very different from a country to the next but, if I remember correctly, some people have been able to obtain it a much lower flat fee in Germany or Switzerland (something like $1500 instead of whatever thousands of dollars). I think it's no longer possible to do it if you don't reside in these countries, but it might be worth asking around if cheaper solutions still exist.

Finally, and most importantly, the French Automobile Club now requires the motorcycle to be brought back to France for you to recover the deposit (regardless whether all the in/out stamps are balanced). This requirement might only exist for motorcycles that are registered in France, though, but I would still ask them. My girlfriend and I got an exemption but it was after long conversations and because:
- our Carnets had long been expired (more than a year),
- we were near a French consulate that could certify that our bikes were there with us,
- we were in a country that doesn't recognize the Carnet anyhow.

Hope this helps,
Pierre (& Merritt too)
http://www.photobiker.com

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Pierre Saslawsky
http://photobiker.com

Irina,

If you can't get plates and find an organisation in Yemen to issue a carnet you will hit a brick wall. Some countries REQUIRE the use of the carnet. For an explanation of what it is see the carnet page here on HUBB and this link on Wikipedia (with a list of countries requiring it, but note that this is fluctuating info): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnet_de_Passage

Pierre,

"The price of the Carnet", meaning the deposit you have to put down, varies from AA to AA. In NZ, for example, I had to deposit 300% of the value of the bike, because that's what had to be covered for the most expensive country. You get the deposit back, of course. The German ADAC and I believe the RAC require a lower deposit, because the carnet fee (which you don't get back) includes an insurance which would cover the difference in the unlikely event that you don't export the bike and the AA can't recover the money from you.

That's a very useful link there, thanks very much.

The ADAC will issue carnets to foreign registered vehicles under certain circumstances. I've got one from them for my French rego bike, but I am a German resident and national with a German bank account. It doesn't cost anything to ask...

Finally, when I enquired in Nice about the carnet I was also told that "French Automobile Club requires the motorcycle to be brought back to France". When I spoke to the person in charge at HQ he told me that this was in fact incorrect. They require the bike to be cleared by customs and the last page to be correctly filled in. However, my info is about two years old and things may have changed.

This thread is getting really interesting!

__________________
Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

There is an auto club in Yemen, it's called the "Yemen Club for Touring & the Automobile". I don't have any contact details but I have heard it is quite active. The cost of the carnet will probably be based on an pre-set figure which may well be several times the value of the bike (for Iran for instance), or less for other ME countries. From memory a carnet for Iran in the UAE costs about USD5k + a non-returnable fee of USD250, although the former can be bartered down, and I'd expect it would be similar in Yemen.

cheers
Brett

Irinas,

the Carnet costs hell lot of money to get it from any western country. There IS a possiblity to skip the Carnet for IRAN and it's official way also. I've done it once (costed around 150$ for the document +50$ for "organising fee", it can be done cheaper if you know how to bargain the price ). But in my situation it was entering/exiting the same border post, because they wanted that i return the temporary import document and it was essential for the officials.

I think your alternative might be to search information if it's possible enter from the Gulf area (which i think you plan to do?):

1) issue the temporary import documents there
2) obtain the temp. import document (that iranian Carnet "alternative")
3) ride through Iran to Dogubeyazit (Turkey) border post, de-issue temp. import document there and have the document sent back to the original border post you entered Iran from via regular postoffice service. All this in hope they can do it themselves (you'll pay a bit more for them of course) while you've already exited into Turkey.

?

If i'll find my phonebook i can give you a very knowledged iranian guy's phone number who works in Dogubeyazit border post, i think he can get your things organised.


To buy Carnet from western country and to be "regular third-worldian" yourself is like buying the impossible, well unless you aren't from royal family or crude-oil businessmann. The chepest from western countries is the German ADAC's issued Carnet which works for most foreigners (most other countries autoclubs DO NOT btw!). Through ADAC for Iran it is: 3000EURos deposit (you'll get it back after you return the document) + 220EURos issuing fee (this you will not get back) + a bit more EURos for DHL post service costs to get the documents securely transported to you first and back to them later after you've returned.

IF Yemen has a possibility issuing the official Carnet (which i think highly unlikely) then it'll probably be ZILLION times less expensive compared to any western countries just because they're "poorer" countreis and they need to use the Carnets anyway for the transportation needs, it's all regulated properly. From Iran i heard they can obtain it by only leaving personal ID card for them as a deposit "backup" (passport they can use while travelling) and costs very little for the fees. Also for Turkey people it's very inexpensive to issue Carnet, but as with iranians, it's only available to local people. I checked the Turkey Autoclub Carnet issuing possibility, but they denyed it for foreigners, altough it was bloody inexpensive i remember. So certanly check your autoclub, if not then check "averagly poorer" (NOT the UAE!) countries nearby (Saudi, Oman) if they're authorized to issue Carnet for Yemen citizens.

PS: why not go through Saudi, Jordan, Syria & Turkey? No Carnet needed there. Tho, i admit the Iran is a fantastic country and certanly worth the bit of extra hassle.

Good luck, good roads and happy travels!

Margus