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23 Jun 2013
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this is not good news at all, at makes me very nervy, as this type of attack the attackers dress up as armed forces/police. So when you rock up at a checkpoint, or get a knock at your guesthouse door how are you supposed to tell..
RIP to the poor tourists murdered, and for every Pakistani killed in futile conflict at the moment...
I hope they don't close the KKH to tourists.... only time will tell...
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23 Jun 2013
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Terrible pity that ISLAMIC terrorism is reaching beautiful hitherto peaceful parts of the earth like this. The local people will be the first to suffer as travelers and tourists alike will choose to go elsewhere. 
This is the first time I have heard of such things happening in this beautiful part of Pakistan.
My thoughts go out to the families of those murdered by these monsters.
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23 Jun 2013
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there is nothing particularly Islamic about a Taliban terrorist attack, its like saying the Ku Klux Klan represent Christianity,
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23 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern
at makes me very nervy,..
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Why?
More people get killed on the roads of the UK.
A bus load went down a ravine in Montenegro today during a deluge of rain, but no one has posted that in here, yet.
It's another case of "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" - same as someone who dies in their bed when their chimney collapses and comes crashing through the roof.
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Originally Posted by Fern
I hope they don't close the KKH to tourists.... only time will tell...
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Yep, that is giving in to those who perpetrate these atrocities in the name of Islam; sometimes in the name of the Sunni branch, sometimes in the name of t'others, but always using the religion of Islam as the excuse/distorted reasoning (lack of).
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23 Jun 2013
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This is a travel forum and not the right place to talk about PR.
(Politics,Religion) and keep a religion responsible for terrorism.
Its global terrorism and everywhere..Remember Oslo Utoya Island on 22.July.2012 and dont trust media that much..
Religion is between my heart and my God.We must respect others to be respected for a more peaceful world..
Also getting visas will be more easy and travelling more happy this way!!!!
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24 Jun 2013
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no, I've done the KKH, what I mean is that when you are rolling up to a check point you are not sure if they are genuine or not.. whether you get a friendly greeting or a shot in the head.
Not long before I passed through, a group of pilgrims were hauled off a bus by a 'military' checkpoint, and then shot.
At least 20 Shias pulled off bus, shot dead in northern Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Who can you trust?
I can't exactly ask 'are you the real thing or a terrorist'?
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24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern
no, I've done the KKH, what I mean is that when you are rolling up to a check point you are not sure if they are genuine or not.. whether you get a friendly greeting or a shot in the head.
Not long before I passed through, a group of pilgrims were hauled off a bus by a 'military' checkpoint, and then shot.
At least 20 Shias pulled off bus, shot dead in northern Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Who can you trust?
I can't exactly ask 'are you the real thing or a terrorist'? |
You confirm my point; you are/were "in or around the wrong place" and who knows how close you have come to being "at the wrong time" as well.
You can only make a judgement based on all the factors, at that specific time and space continuum.
This other thread on the same subject asked about the perpetrators:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...tourists-70963
The group mentioned in your own link claimed responsibility yesterday (I have already forgotten the name attributed to them), along with a separate claim of responsibility from the so-called Pakistani Taliban.
Hereafter, it is a case of yet another day, so there will be little further notice paid to this particular event, except by those who are directly affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern
Who can you trust?
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On some days, no one!
Not the politicians, not the religious leaders, not the religious zealots, not even your own riding partner, on a really bad day.
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23 Jul 2013
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Who to trust?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern
no, I've done the KKH, what I mean is that when you are rolling up to a check point you are not sure if they are genuine or not.. whether you get a friendly greeting or a shot in the head.
Not long before I passed through, a group of pilgrims were hauled off a bus by a 'military' checkpoint, and then shot.
At least 20 Shias pulled off bus, shot dead in northern Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Who can you trust?
I can't exactly ask 'are you the real thing or a terrorist'? |
Obviously nobody and why in the world would anyone go to Pakistan and Afganistan today? There are enough oter places to visit in the world not to challenge fate. If you absolutely refuse to stay away, then expect to be shot.
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24 Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKPhoto13
Obviously nobody and why in the world would anyone go to Pakistan and Afganistan today? There are enough oter places to visit in the world not to challenge fate. If you absolutely refuse to stay away, then expect to be shot.
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Because Pakistan is incomparably gorgeous. Despite these unfortunate happenings, still it is much safer than many popular tourist destinations. I would avoid taking names here.
You wanted to know who would visit Pakistan? Me for instance, came back home and now living with 180 million fantastic people enjoying every moment here.
FOX News appears to have made strange impression on a few simple and gullible people.
Omar
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25 Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omie
Because Pakistan is incomparably gorgeous. Despite these unfortunate happenings, still it is much safer than many popular tourist destinations. I would avoid taking names here.
*****
FOX News appears to have made strange impression on a few simple and gullible people.
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I'm sure that there are very beautiful parts of Pakistan, but as I've said, there are many beautiful places around the world. And I have no doubt that it has many wonderful people, but the same is also true of many countries.
I have little doubt that Pakistan is safer than media reports would lead one to believe, but it is a bit much to suggest that such reports are only from Fox News, or that anyone who doesn't dash down to Pakistan for their next vacation is simple and gullible. The incident that sparked this thread is an example--foreign tourists in a previously totally safe area suddenly subjected to an act of deliberate and random violence.
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24 Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKPhoto13
Obviously nobody and why in the world would anyone go to Pakistan and Afganistan today? There are enough oter places to visit in the world not to challenge fate. If you absolutely refuse to stay away, then expect to be shot.
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Well, if you want to go overland between Europe and India, then Pakistan is hard to skip. This is why I went there in 2007, and I did not stay long, because I was a little bit nervous (there was a martial law put in place just a couple of weeks before I crossed the border from Iran). But I never had one single problem there. Everyone I met, was extremely friendly. In fact I later thought, was there any real reason to be nervous at all. Sure, there are some unsafe areas, but the police take good care of tourists, and you don´t end up in those areas, unless you do something stupid yourself. (And I think I was about 1000 times more likely to be killed in local traffic, than by some jihadists - in fact traffic was often really terrible!)
One thing I was really amazed of, is how different both Iran and Pakistan felt to me, compared to the view, that I´d built of these countries in my imagination (and it was mostly from what the Western media provides). I´m not saying governments, politics or extremist groups aren´t real, but they are definitely not the whole story.
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24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehmet Zeki Avar
This is a travel forum and not the right place to talk about PR.
(Politics,Religion) and keep a religion responsible for terrorism.
Its global terrorism and everywhere..Remember Oslo Utoya Island on 22.July.2012 and dont trust media that much..
Religion is between my heart and my God.We must respect others to be respected for a more peaceful world..
Also getting visas will be more easy and travelling more happy this way!!!!
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you're right, this is no place for the discussion of politics or religion. it IS, however, the right place to talk about SAFETY.
it is not about the religion being responsible for terrorism, just a whole mess of fools running around killing people in the name of their "god." unfortunately, the world has seen this before. it may not be what "god" wants. but as long as people keep saying they are killing in the name of "god" that particular religion is going to be blamed.
lastly, the taliban are muslim fanatics and claim that what they are doing is in the name of their "god."
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24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teevee
you're right, this is no place for the discussion of politics or religion. it IS, however, the right place to talk about SAFETY.
it is not about the religion being responsible for terrorism, just a whole mess of fools running around killing people in the name of their "god." unfortunately, the world has seen this before. it may not be what "god" wants. but as long as people keep saying they are killing in the name of "god" that particular religion is going to be blamed.
lastly, the taliban are muslim fanatics and claim that what they are doing is in the name of their "god."
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So you're going to not make this a religious discussion by...er...making it a religious discussion? Well done. Very classy. 
Anyway this sort of stuff is always political and to do with territory and power and wealth, and disparities therein. It's never about religion per se
More importantly its usually about incredibly stupid people with no education and few aspirations striking out at the world. Never doubt that the same would not happen anywhere in the world if conditions became bad enough and the people as uneducated and hopeless
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24 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senno
So you're going to not make this a religious discussion by...er...making it a religious discussion? Well done. Very classy.
Anyway this sort of stuff is always political and to do with territory and power and wealth, and disparities therein. It's never about religion per se
More importantly its usually about incredibly stupid people with no education and few aspirations striking out at the world. Never doubt that the same would not happen anywhere in the world if conditions became bad enough and the people as uneducated and hopeless |
i guess you entirely missed the point of safety going hand in hand with religion in certain places...
i for one have no qualms about discussing religion or politics if and as they relate to safety in a forum on travel safety. the point is to inform people. if the violence is a result of religious fanatics or political unrest, the discussion should go forward limited only by relevance to the situation.
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25 Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teevee
i guess you entirely missed the point of safety going hand in hand with religion in certain places...
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But it's not religion is it, it's the criminal actions of crazed loonies. If it was religion then exactly the same would be happening everywhere where people of a certain religion live, which is clearly not the case.
The actions of these idiots is neither mandated nor condoned by any religion on the surface of the earth; they may claim they are acting religiously but that's just bullshit, and you repeating those claims as if they are correct is a case of falling for their propaganda.
So why do they do it? Like I said, economic issues, territorial disputes, money, power, glory, feelings of humiliation; all the worst effects of the 'haves and havenots' splits that underpin the global economic and gubernatorial system with all its disparities, not to mention simple bad-assery; evil in some hearts
Quote:
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i for one have no qualms about discussing religion or politics if and as they relate to safety in a forum on travel safety. the point is to inform people. if the violence is a result of religious fanatics or political unrest, the discussion should go forward limited only by relevance to the situation.
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I think we can quite clearly say 'watch out for X' or 'be careful in Y because of local tensions' etc without casting aspersions on local peoples, religions, traditions, customs etc
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