We will be setting off from the UK to Mongolia on a couple of 125 .
For visa applications ( fixed dates for the Stans) I need to have an idea of how long it will take us to make it from the Uk to Kazakhstan, going via Southern Europe and Ukraine.
We will avoid major roads when possible so may be slow going.
Anyone has gone round Europe on a 125? What was your average distance daily? We don't plan to start at. 7 am to 8 pm!

This is our first long travel with such small bikes. Usually on a 650 so we can blast through Europe.... Not this time....

Cheers

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

On a 100cc traveling through Vietnam, we never got more than 300klms a day... more like 200-250klms on a mix of road types.
We managed 75kph on good roads and much less on the poorer roads.
At the end of the day, after 250klms we were glad to get off the seat.

Alex

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Age does not protect you from motorbikes. But motorbikes, to some extent, protect you from age.

I rode from Calais down through France using back roads on a Vespa PX125 then over the Pyrenees to Huesca, Northern Spain. Around 820 miles or so in 4 days. A couple of hundred miles a day was quite enough thanks to a short fuel range and some minor mechanical issues which ate into the time. A 125cc motorbike should be a little quicker but 250 miles would probably be enough for most people particularly as you will be doing it day after day.

Maria:

Don't forget that the prevailing wind will have quite a substantial effect on the number of miles you can travel each day with such a small bike.

I remember crossing Canada (against the wind, from west to east) one summer on a Honda 360cc. If it was a windy day out on the highway, and the wind was not in my favour (it never was), cruising speed could be reduced by 10 km/h.

I'm not even sure if it will be practical to take 125cc bikes out on the highway for long periods of time... but if you do plan to travel on highways, be sure to discount your cruising speed (which will likely be the bike's top speed) to allow for unfavourable winds.

Michael

PS: Have you investigated to determine if you will be able to purchase consumable items (tires, filters, brake components, etc.) for those 125cc bikes all the way along your route?

It is very practical, I went the same way on the same bike last year and thought it a better bike than the R80GS I have travelled on before, but then I also like to cycle tour which is even slower. Spares are just as available for these bikes as any other, not very in some places such as Azerbaijan but generally good, the CG125 engine they are fitted with is the second most common after the Honda 50/70/90.
A comfortable cruising speed is about 50 mph, they are a comfortable bike and I managed up to 300 miles in a longer day but 200 was preferable.

I've used my old 1970's 125 for several Euro trips in the last year or so covering about 4000 miles in total, as well as many more in the past on other 125s. Unlike bigger bikes there are a number of things that govern how far you can (or would want to) travel per day. Here's my potted wisdom:

1. You will be driving it more or less flat out all the time on the open road. Oherwise you'll get nowhere. Don't worry about it though, they seem to be happy enough and after a while you get used to it.

2.Top speed will depend on a number of factors - whether you're going into the wind or with it, up hill or down hill, how much stuff you've added to the bike (not weight but frontal area - screens etc) and, really important, gearing. Either put some effort in to optimising the gearing beforehand or take some sprockets with you - front ones are cheaper and lighter.

3. Motorways - if you can't maintain 55mph motorways will be a stressful experience. You have to be able to run with the trucks. I've frequently been down to 40mph in places with head winds, hills and gearing issues and I spent more time looking in my mirrors to see if the truck coming up behind had registered me. Some come very close before they pull out - I don't think the truckers are used to things going slower than them !! Sundays on the autobahn (= no trucks) can be frightening with 140mph BMWs and Audis not even bothering to move out of your lane to come past. On ordinary roads you'll have white van man about 30cm behind you at all times.

4. I've done 350 - 400 miles in a day a number of times but I wouldn't want to do it day after day. Generally somewhere between 200 and 250 miles is enough. Because you're having to row them along on the gear lever and the engine is constantly at max revs it's more tiring than a bigger bike.

5. You probably won't need much in the way of consumables - tyres, chain, brake bits etc if you start off with new parts. A couple of tubes maybe but stuff just doesn't wear out like it does on bigger bikes. I don't think I've ever had to change any stuff like that en route with a small bike. What does go is light bulbs. The vibration eventually kills them. If you can find some suitable led stuff that works it might be a good upgrade. My Suzuki is 6v and the lights are AC so I don't have much choice but I've found that 12v bulbs last longer. There's no light output but they don't blow.

Is this the Mongol rally you're doing? I did consider doing it this year but I've got too many other things on in the summer to be able to find the time. Looks interesting though.

Thanks for this very useful feedback. It's good to know from those who have done similar trips on such small bikes.

We are not doing the Mongol Rally. We picked the small bikes because we do not want to be restricted by heavy bikes in Mongolia and the Stans. And then I am crap off road but should be able to manage on a little light bike.
We have 2 XR125. For parts, as Mark mentioned, the engine is the same than the CG125 so should be easy to find on the road (in major towns at least).
We have had the bikes thoroughly checked, and all that should be replaced/checked, has been replaced/checked (within reason) costly but worth it as the bikes had never been maintained.

We will carry only essential spares (like back inner tube, throttle cable, levers and brake cable) as we want to travel light!

Cheers.

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

I blow hot and cold on small bikes - I get a thing about stripping everything down to essentials, using a small bike to slow things down and just drifting slowly down the back roads and for a while I'm happy with that. Then I get bored with the lack of performance and the inability to get anywhere so I go back to bigger stuff. I've gone round that circle probably half a dozen times in my biking life and at the moment I'm in a small bike era. Last year I only used my 125 and a 400cc Honda. All the bigger stuff just stayed in the garage.

What I like about them is lack of weight and simplicity - you don't really have to think too much about the bike, but universally I've always wanted just a bit more power - particularly on the open road. My current Suzuki is 10bhp and just about usable on a long trip but I've had a couple of 15bhp screamer 125s. They were about 10mph faster and much more usable - although the narrow power bands and constant need for high revs made them very tiring to ride any distance. It's the lack of torque that's frustrating but that only comes from more cc's which in turn means heavier cycle parts, which is more weight - which removes the reason I chose a small bike in the first place.

You'll soon get used to people not taking you seriously on small bikes. You're just seen as a local on his way to work and hardly anyone waves, although with two of you it might be different. Many times I've gone to pay at a filling station and come back to find someone's moved the bike to get their car to the pump. No one would do that to a Harley. My suggestion is to get some stickers made up with something like Satan's Slaves - Manheim Chapter and a few skulls on them. People might have second thoughts then.

Good luck with the trip - I'm looking at UK to Istanbul on mine at some point when family circumstances allow.

I would work on an average speed of between 30 and 40mph - and after allowing for food/fuel stops a realistic target would be 250 to 300 miles a day, possibly a bit higher in 'civilised' europe but dropping down to about 200 miles once you get into the wilder countries with worse roads !

Key point is careful route planning - 125's are great on small roads but no fun on motorways - and even less fun on German autobahns.

I see that you are not doing the Mongol Rally but a friend did that trip last year on a Suzuki VanVan 125. He certainly found that his choice of bike was a great conversation point with the locals en route and opened plenty of doors when it came to accomodation, hospitality and alcohol !

Maria, I was going to say Mark Manley's the man to talk to but he's here already

The longest I've done on my Derbi is a 300 mile day, she didn't seem mind though. The thing I find that slows me down I not the bike's top speed but the choice of road. My 300 mile day started French dual carriageway but after 90 miles of being blown by the turbulence of passing vans, the constant mirror watching to see if there was a space long enough combined with a stretch of road flat enough to allow me to overtake the convoys of trucks cruising at 10 mph slower than me and the sheer horribleness of being tossed about in the wind and rain I came off onto the roads.

As soon as I did that the whole ride changed (the sun coming out helped) and I firmly believe that my 125cc Derbi was no slower than any other bike on the road. Why? Because then it was the that slowed me down not the bike. Suddenly my Derbi's top speed was 15mph faster than the speed limit between villages so I throttled back and enjoyed the road. Of course I ended up going through every town and villaand not roundthem so my speed was further decreased by the frequent 30mph speed limits. And because I was going through interesting places with nice cafés I stopped more and chatted more.

So what I find with 125cc touring is that it's not the bike that slows you down it's the roads you take and the desire to stop and look.

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Hi Alex, yes we will definitely avoid dual carriage ways.
I think your Derbi is faster than our XRs. I don’t think we would be capable of cruising even at 60mph. Alistair’s bike is 9 year old (mine 8) and his does not appear capable of going fast! 50/55 mph cruising speed could be the limit! Mind you, we only got them out last weekend (since they were rebuilt) and we tested them a bit on the A3 and on very muddy trails on Sunday. For that, I am very happy with our choice, as they are so light and nimble to get through deep mud and large puddles of water.

Then I had to spend nearly an hour cleaning and polishing the boots while Alistair was washing the bikes! That won’t happen on the road

I estimated about 190 to 200 miles a day in average. So I am giving us about 20 days to make it to the Kazakh border and adjusted our visa application accordingly. I think now it is more realistic. Thanks for all feedback, well taken into account!

As we have 4 months to go and come back (including 3 ½ days of travel on the trans-Siberian from Irkutsk to Moscow) and allowing for 3 weeks from Moscow home via my brother’s house in France…. I think my time table allow us a lot of faffing around and pottering along and side rides if we want. We don’t like to rush

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

Maria, oddly enough I was going to suggest a few test rides down the A3 it's a road the Derbi finds surprisingly testing with a bunch of long, not steep climbs which see the speed gradually dropping until you have that gut wrenching decision to make about whether the gear you're in will get you over the hill or whether you have to change down and be on something that sounds like a hyper-annoyed wasp.

Then there's the climb over the South Downs at Butser Hill just south of Petersfield to give that white van up your backside feeling as he tries to make you go faster in "his" lane while the BMWs storm past in the other lane.

After that come off the A3 towards Chichester and back across the downs via Lavant, Goodwood towards Petworth where you could probably even find a green lane or two to bounce your luggage about with. There's also the sands of Frensham if you want to scare yourself.

I think that loop sums up pretty much every problem a 125cc rider can face in Europe at least all in the space of 100-150 miles and easily doable with pauses to adjust things, check straps etc even when you add in all the faffing about getting into and out of London.

A quick thought on packing, although Mike will know more, I've found that width makes more difference than height. Usual bike packing suggests you put weight low down in panniers with a roll bag if you need it. But panniers do nothing for aerodynamics whereas bags tucked behind the rider tend not to make much difference. With the Derbi and panniers and throwing in a headwind is a bit like throwing a parachute out of the back.

When are you two off? We should all come and wave you off.

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Hi Alex. Even on bigger bikes (my 600cc CCM for example) adding panniers makes a big difference - 60mpg without them and 50mpg with them - averaged over 1500 mile trips down to the Alps and back. On my 125 just about everything makes a difference - even wet roads knocks a few mph off the top speed.

Frontal area is the main killer though - the bike is about 10mph and a good 15mpg worse in winter trim - wider screen and with small panniers on wet roads, than it is in summer mode (small screen no wider than me, dry roads and no panniers). 10mph is a lot to lose when it only does 60 anyway and 65 instead of 80mpg makes it less economical than one of our cars.

Main A type roads and dual carriageways are probably the worst for small bikes. On motorways you can use the trucks as shelter and if you can run at their speed it can be ok as everyone trundles along at the same speed. On main roads it's always always the vans that are the problem - cars are small enough and fast enough to go past easily and trucks can't really overtake if you're doing 55mph but you're just a mobile chicane to the vans who force their way past and then cut you up. That's been my experience anyway.

Guys, we plan to leave the 22d of April, just after the Easter weekend.

Regarding luggage, I have the Andyz soft panniers. Alistair bought some soft panniers as well (I think) but I am not sure what he picked in the end. We may have a small roll bag for the tent and few bits. Not windshield.
OR maybe I should pass my panniers to Al and use my big trusted and very well tested 65l ortlieb bag strapped behind me? I need to put all our gear on the floor and see how we are going to pack!

I really want to do a trial run with the bikes (i.e. fully loaded, go somewhere, and test all camping gear) but might be difficult to find the time with work and all that, plus sorting out the dog and taking him to his temporary 4 months residency (with friends or family – we have a bit of choice)!

But I will pass to Alistair the “promenade” that you suggested, Alex, maybe try it with the panniers on filled with stuff and test our mpg etc…

As for camping gear we can always camp in the garden! Neighbours will thinks we are mad but then by now I don’t think anything surprises them coming from us!

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Maria

www.franglais-riders.com