I'm not surprised by your comment--very little that people say on the HUBB surprises me anymore--but I do find it ridiculous to equate the US with Libya, Syria, etc. You can talk about our horrible deeds all you want, but it is on a whole different level from most of the other countries referenced in your list.

Yup the US just does it on a grander scale.

I travel without real notice of local/international politics where-ever possible, it gives you the chance to see the country as defined by its people as opposed to defined by its politicians.

Oh a political post!
Yes the USA dose do it big. We had grate teachers. Not near the size of the grate Khans, Rome, Napoleon,. More recent France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, USSR, China, Japan, Germany and the worst of them all Grate Britten. Sun never setts on the British empire! looks like the song was right "we didn't start the fire"

As for the USA and doggy we do have places I will not go. As a whole we are safe and accepting. The most wanted person by the USA Osama Bin Laden family was in the USA during 9/11 they where put on a plane and sent to safety.
All that and most people are let in to the USA even if we are at war, even if we are at odds with your government. Even If you come to do nothing but shout at the politicians. Hell we do it all the time dose not help.

As for me doggy? Local doggy parts of citys scare me more than nations do. Politicians all lie they use the "news" to scare you and then controlling you is that much easier, around the wold it is all the same. Hate them there there bad they do xyz Fear them over there they do abc We are better than them. US, GB, the EU, Libya, Syria, Iran all the same hate and fear is all they want it is a scam. Start a war jack up the tax control the people and send in the poor to get killed. When is the last time the people got a thing from a war? It is the rich and politicians that get power. I try not to fall for it but sometimes I do. My money is on the people not the government.

Great Britain

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my bad. But I was on a rant, I was on a roll did not have time stop, poor edumication, what with the public schools we have here I am lucky to even know where the UK is.

No it was just me being me!

It's great this quoting out of context stuff. Are "Local doggy parts" the bits you would lick if you could? Or some sort of "style" thing?

Sincerely apologies for taking this thread off-track. Won't do it again, promise.

later
C

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No DL, it isnt a political post except in the sense of asking people if a country's human rights record influenced their travel plans. This is not a political forum and I dont treat it as such; some do. You're like a few others who are well offtopic.

The question gives a few examples and asks does this make a difference to you? Thats all. You dont have to agree with the list, I really dont care; just stay on topic and answer if you can. I said there were many countries which were dodgy - you take your pick. Or say you dont care if you want- say whatever you think if its on topic.

This is a perfectly valid, relevant and topical issue - I hoped that HUBBers were aware of the topic and had thought about it. Some have, but a few others went off on a tangent somewhere.

For what it's worth, most dont seem to care about visiting dodgy countries. Some do. Thats their business and I offer no comment on that.

I dont talk about "your horrible deeds" and I'm not here to list in detail the human rights issues. I just ask you if a country's record influences your travel plans . You decide whats dodgy, not me. Its not a political forum. Stay on topic.

Stop dodging the question.Is there a place you wouldnt visit because of its record? If this isnt important, well just say so...

Jeez, it's like pulling teeth.

The country's human rights record does not influence my travel decisions unless it would jeopardize my own safety. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to travel in my own country, or any country accessible by road from where I live. Every country has at some time had human rights violations. When the human rights violations are against my own kind (gay) then I will try to avoid those countries or the less tolerant parts of otherwise safe countries if I feel that my safety is seriously compromised.

The rationale is that I'm directly interacting, and spending money, with the people and not the governments. Generally speaking there are good people all over the world and they should not be punished for something their government, drug cartels, hate groups, etc, etc, are doing.

Boycotting governments = OK
Boycotting the people = harmful
...IMHO


...Michelle
www.scrabblebiker.com

Maybe it's not a typo. It GRATES on me sometimes too

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well then no it does not matter to me what the government dose I am not going there to see the government.

No there is no place I wouldnt visit because of its record. It isn't important.

Reason: I come from a country that has committed more, for want of 2 better words, "war crimes" than most others over the past couple of hundred years. It would be a bit rich me telling other to get their house in order, when mine stinks.

I clearly don't condone or support these crimes, nor the alleged crimes of the countries I visit. It's been said previously on this thread by many others: I happen to use a m/c to visit countries to learn their culture, see their landscapes, ride their fun roads/non-roads and meet their ordinary people, not to analyse the internal policies/foreign policy initiatives of their allegedly elected representatives/tinpot dictators.

It's been said that 3 topics are never boring: politics, sex and religion. I don't usually discuss the first. Somebody else once said politics is Hollywood for ugly people. I prefer pretty people.


Yesterday at Universal Studios Hollywood 1


Yesterday at Universal Studios Hollywood 2

Chris, tomorrow at Disneyland

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The consensus of opinion from most of the people I've spoken to or heared speak about travelling to these 'dangerous' countries is that we are often the victim of western media hype - it's usually not as bad as it is portrayed in our 24hr news.

I certainly think that there is an inverse correlation between the attitudes of the government and that of its people. For example many of the poorest and oppressive countries can be some of the most generous and friendly countries too. The HU community is FULL of such stories... search anf you shall find.

In my opinion, worse than politics is religion... I would almost certainly give the topic a wide birth in some countries that are notoriously intolerant, which is a hard one for me because I'm somewhat of an agent provocateur of non-belief. I would discuss it, but only if I knew that they were not going to cut off my head! Soemtimes people hear things as insulting or offensive no matter how diplomatically I say it.

However, I'm am certainly an advocate of being open minded but not so much so that your brain falls out. You need to keep your wits about you in any country but they are usually for different reasons. Furthermore, despite the religiosity of a country these peope too can be very welcoming to travelers but caution must still be take, at least until you've weighed them up.

In conclusion, it would not affect me. I'm going to take what I hear from the authorities and the media with a great big pinch of salt. At the same time I'll do my own research and realisitcally assess the danger of each individual country as and when required. Things change very quickly, what was true 6 months ago may not be true today and what is true today may have completely changed in a year.

Fnally, If I wanted a totally risk free life I would never leave the house let alone be an adventure motorcyclist!

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There isn't a country in the world which doesn't have some 'doggy' element in its past. Hell, Switzerland only gave the vote to women a few years back!

I think if travel has taught me anything, it's that people are pretty much the same wherever you go. Often, the administration that rules them is almost totally dissociated from the people. Even in a democracy like the UK, only a small proportion of the population will often agree wholeheartedly with the administration.

Bearing this in mind, it would seriously limit the options for travel if we limited ourselves to countries with good records on human rights. Much as I like Scandinavia, I don't want to go only there on holiday for the rest of my life.

I believe that much of the world's international political problems are due to a fundamental misunderstanding of humanity - an ignorance of the fact that that the man (or woman) in the street in Tehran is essentially the same as the man in the street in Dallas, and the man in the street in Lyon, and the man in the street in Tokyo, and... well, you get the picture. Politicians exploit the ignorance of their electorate for their own ends. George Bush might be considered a very good example of this. Without this ignorance 'evil' administrations would find it far more difficult to murder, kidnap, invade etc. in the name of security.

If only more people travelled to the countries damned by the administrations of their own, perhaps the world would be a more peaceful place!

Matt

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http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Well, I was never too keen on visiting Normandy, but I feel better about those folks now:-


The Norman conquest of the TV schedule | spiked

Could even grow to love em!

For miscellaneous other parts of world to fret about, there are a selection here:-
spiked | all issues

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Dave