Hello All.

First post on here; I am planning a RTW trip in 2023, planning to do Alaska-Montreal-UK-Turkey-India-Thailand-Australia-S. America-Seattle on an Africa twin.

I already have a cost estimate figured out covering everything from buying a 2018/19 Africa Twin to the Carnet and other costs (~45k for an estimated 15 months).

The one thing I can't get a good handle on is lodging. My goal is to camp as much as possible, but I understand that sometimes a campsite will be unavailable or I won't be able to find a good place to wild camp. I plan to do about an 80/20 on-road-off road route and was wondering if anyone had any info to help me better quantify how much I should set aside for lodging. As of now I am planning to camp 5 days a week and find some place to stay two days a week for an average hotel/hostel cost of $30 in addition to spending less time in more expensive countries.

Any insights will be helpful.

Thanks and happy riding.

The only thought was the choice of bike.

If you are going to free camp then you will be looking at out of the way places on tracks and trails. Being on your own you will be reliant on others to help you when you get stuck/bogged/fall over.

Maybe a lighter bike would be more suitable? CRF300?

Edit: What are you going to be doing in Australia? If it is the tracks through the middle of Australia (Birdsville Track, Simpson desert etc) large adventure bikes are another magnitude of difficulty, as is riding to the tip. See Shadower 75 on YouTube for the difference between a large adventure bike and a couple of 250’s.

Simpson;

https://youtu.be/FTSuBrWeJDY


Simpson on little bike;

https://youtu.be/Lm9SbGWDz7c




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Jens,
here are a few details that might help in regard to moving around Australia where I live. Fuel cost on the east coast, especially in the major cities is the cheapest. Currently in this regional city (Maitland NSW), 30 mins inland from the coast and 2 hours north of Sydney, 91RON fuel costs $1.49 Aus per litre for the cheapest unleaded fuel. Sydney would be cheaper. Further inland, the cost goes up.It could be close to double that in the Outback locations.
Accommodation costs pre-Covid were as follows…Average motel room cost in a regional town of say 8000 people hours west of say Sydney, varies from $80-120 Aus. I doubt you will stay in them but you might be stuck once or twice. Youth hostel costs vary. Ninety percent of our hostels are based along the East coast of the states of Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland. Some hostels exist on the other coastal expanse in Western Australia with others are in the major cities and some other well known tourist venues around the country. In summer in Byron Bay (East coast) in 2019 I paid about $125 for one night in a room on my own. The room was adequate. If you look up costs for YHA Byron Bay ( there are a couple of hostels actually) you will get a more up-to-date idea of costs coming into Summer ( when costs rise). B.Bay is a place full of tourists and Backpackers in season. Look up town/ city names you think you might see and look up the hostel prices- sorry… you’ve already thought of that no doubt! Motorcycle mechanics charge an average of $110 Aus per hour ( parts extra of course). A good quality off-road tyre costs approx. $200- 220 as average plus fitting, depending on size and brand. Plenty of camping areas. Free camping is reasonably plentiful too. In non-tourist seasons you will meet more caravans than you might expect, as in-season travelling for them is avoided by many due to high traffic volumes, higher costs and fewer caravan spots to be had in the parks used by them. Lastly, be careful of the road trains out west and on truck routes. Sometimes close to 100 metres in length. They take longer to pass than you might think. Highly skilled drivers though. Cheers Smoky

Google ‘Tigger RTW’
A couple, 2 up on a Triumph Tiger. The site gives a complete rundown of all costs including accommodation - brilliant information.
Unfortunately it’s mostly in the Americas at the moment but they’re moving on slowly so worth checking to see where they’ll be by 2023.

Great trip!

Some thoughts about your specific question - I think your situation will vary from area to area.

Alaska/Canada - wild camping is feasible, formal campsites reasonably priced with facilities you'll probably want to use from time to time. I'd use BnBs in cities, although AirBnB (for example) has become somewhat expensive recently.

Europe - very varied, some areas have good campsites at reasonable prices, others are more expensive, wild camping is permitted some countries, not in others.

Asia - I haven't done much camping in recent years, however my understanding is that it too varies - SE Asia has very inexpensive hostels and hotels and you may prefer to use these, particularly in more populous areas.

Australia - good advice above; to add to this, our experience is that campsites are expensive, hotels more so, BnBs not far off hotel prices. Wild camping is certainly viable, and we've done a bit in Australia. It's safe enough and helps manage the costs of an expensive part of the world.

South America/Central America/Mexico - accommodation in posadas/pousadas/small hotels is very inexpensive (cheaper than campsites in Australia) and this is a viable option. Formal campsites are fewer than in USA, Canada, Western Europe, and Australia, and in some areas security is not perfect, so it's often a better plan to stay in a posada where your bike will be secure, and it's economical.

USA again - as above.

Any reason for not going to Africa? Camping is a great option, prices are low in much of Africa (although high in Tanzania for example); there are also inexpensive small hotels/BnBs.

The way we travel is to camp as much as we can outside cities, staying in posadas/small hotels occasionally, and in hotels in the cities.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Alanymarce

Great advice.

You are right about Australia being expensive. We live in Oz and things got expensive after a camping business took a local council to court (I think the courts involved in fair trade or similar) and it forced councils to prohibit free camping as it damaged their trade. From that point, councils were obligated to either prohibit or charge for areas available for camping, this pushed prices up.

At the time. I was managing a large municipal councils legal and regulatory unit in Tasmania, where free camping is a way of life and culture. Council was great and we implemented an honesty system of self registration and a small fee, so Tasmania tended to keep its relatively free camping areas. Other states not so much.

As for Africa, I have this concern about going there, as I worked with the United Nations in missions for some time, and was uncomfortable with many of the African members nations that I dealt with. Not all, but most. They always seemed to be there to get what they could get out of it, scamming both other UN and worst of all, the nation we were trying to help. I have worked with people from virtually every nation and the African groups were the only ones I had this issue with.

Interestingly, I watch many of the motorcycle travellers such as itchy boots and on her bike, and they definitely speak more aggressively to those they meet in Africa, compared to other parts of the world, which suggests they are frequently on their guard.

I do accept 100% though that the problem may well rest with me and I have read it all wrong. I am open to having my mind reset


Thanks very much for your input.

What a pity re Australia! To me Oz was the ideal country for camping in the wild, having little crime problems and lots of "empty" space.


But regarding Africa: You're right in respect of scamming and trying to draw as much funds as possible from aid missions. But this is mainly a situation with the upper class, esp. politicians. The rural people are mostly friendly and helpful towards travellers, if you treat them with respect.


But this is off the record, as Jens was asking about the costs of lodging

__________________
Only when we pause to wonder
do we go beyond the limits of our little lives.
(Rod McKuen)

Have you heard about wild/stealth camping? I did 7week ride across US only paid for camping 4 times. There are some legal like NF and semi-legal spots to camp.. camped in rest areas too. Camping in Ontario is friggin expensive you pay less for motel in Thunder Bay than for campsite.

As for cleaning while camping when you need shower they charge $5-6 at gas stations/truck stops.

When you get to 3rd world countries it is almost not worth it to camp $30 will buy you a 4* hotel in Ankara and $15 will buy you a dinner, bed and breakfast in Central Asia.. I did camp in Kazakhstan but it was just because you don't really want to be on the road after sunset with horses and especially camels.. they don't reflect any light and surprisingly fast much more dangerous than deer and moose.

Look into hostels (there're several phone apps to help) you can get one in western europe for €10-20 and in less developed countries for <$10. Bring a lock to lock your stuff in provided locker, and look for ones where your bike can be stored safely overnight. Also in Turkey booking.com is blocked if you want to see listings you need VPN

Jens,
I have just looked up the cost of one night’s hostel (YHA) accommodation in Byron Bay, an East coast tourist hotspot close to the Queensland border. A 4- share room is $29.45 Aus dollars per person per night. A 9- share room costs $26.60 p/person per night. We have ‘Backpackers’ hostels also. These are in competition with YHA hostels. Very similar to YHA hostels. Cost p/p per night is a dollar or two cheaper. The costs may go up in a couple of months as peak season hits. Smoky

Some people a few years ago worked out the average cost of their RTW, with a heavy bias to camping. Basically if you're moving you're buying gas and if you're not then you're buying something else. They averaged $60 a day. More recently I did a mini tour of Europe (cheaper in the east) and averaged about £60 a day. It'll vary depending on the local cost of living from $10 to $100 so there's no universal formula. Just be guided by the locals and other people's experience, wild camp if it's safe and legal by all means otherwise if it's shower day book ahead for the best price you can get at a hotel.

Jens, interestingly I am planning a similar trip to you. I intend to take a 2016 non-DCT Africa twin bike like your good self. They are a heavy bike but with my weight being 100kgs plus and gear added to that, I found that few bikes up to 2016 are, ‘on paper’, rated to take 190kg plus, combined weight, which I will carry (I’ve weighed most of my gear already). The registered weights listed in the manuals and spec sheets for the same bikes, do not always match mind you but double-checking with mechanics etc is helpful. The twin is modern but does not have too much electronic trickery to trouble you. Apparently, tubeless tyres can be fitted using a variety of kits, if tubed tyres put you off. It is able to use e10 fuel ( much of Europe for example, uses fuel blended with ethanol for all fuel options- so I am told) also. I have had the front and rear suspension replaced and glad I did. Parts shouldn’t be any harder to obtain than other bikes seemingly. Riding off-road will be interesting as, a lighter bike is an advantage for a relative off-roader like me but after looking at approximately 25 different bikes, this one is the choice. I’m sure others will have their favourites which is exactly how it should be, as there is no ONE bike for tripping. Smoky

I don't wish to hijack the thread, however think it may be useful to add a comment.

I think the key is that Africa is huge and diverse. There are certainly places where you are at risk, in terms of security and in terms of scams. Having said that, our experience is that the vast majority of people are friendly, helpful, and just trying to get by. If you avoid the obvious areas then you're fine; in fact I consider much of Africa safer than a few places which many would consider more secure.

This is based on my having lived in Botswana and Congo, spent a lot of time in Algeria, Egypt, and Angola, and travelled (often many times) in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Gabon, Namibia, RSA, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda, and Kenya.

Thank you for your advice.

I think that is the way with most countries.

As you haven't already bought the bike, I will add to some of the comments above.

Outside of North America and Europe there's little need for more than 500cc and you can get away with less. And you will never find anyone on a rough trail wishing their bike was heavier.

I would always advise carrying an inexpensive emergency storm shelter in case you are caught out, but a proper tent with sleeping, cooking gear and food adds considerably to the weight. And some of the time during your 15 months you will be in the winter months when it's an awful long time dark with not much to do in a tent once you've made your meal.

Your challenge is to find a bike that's light but sturdy enough to take the weight of your luggage. If you get an older less expensive bike you will find the carnet costs cheaper, and you can put the money towards staying in hostels rather than camping.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Cooking meals while camping is overrated; I used to carry all that stuff until old wise traveler told me: cold food is still food. Since then I carry a couple cans meat, fish, etc as emergency maybe nuts and trail mix.

You can get a decent tent ~4lbs. Add sleeping bag and pad should be under 7-8lbs total, ~3.5kg. I wouldn't wanna sleep anywhere without fully enclosed tent where scorpions or poisonous spiders could be a problem, hypothetically. And while at it take all your gear and riding boots in, just to be safe.