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17 Sep 2012
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The human ABS and Traction control
- -Fingers on levers for quicker response time
- -Not having all fingers on lever for better throttle control and better grip on the handle bars
- -Improved lever control of both clutch and brake through having to use more strength on fewer muscless for the same degree of input, hence less chance of making large and uncontrolled input changes
I think the latter is most important, and not only offroad, but in all conditions... mostly to prevent wheel lockup in cases of emergency braking.... kind of like a human ABS
With only my index and long fingers doing the all the work, I do not only have less muscles working the lever, but I also have less leverage on the lever itself as I can only grab the inner bit of the lever. In other words, I have to really use some strength from only a few tiny muscles to make the input change necessary to lock up the front wheel, hence the locking point comes less abrupt and more controlled. Also, I find that if the wheel does lock up, then I also find it easier to ease up just enough to find the sweet spot with max stopping power and rolling wheels. The reason for the latter is simple; With the locking point coming slowly, then the sweet spot is also never far away.
A great cause of wipeouts is as we all know panicing and grabbing a handful of brake uncontrollably hard, pulling the lever way past the point where the wheel locks up, making it just as difficult to find the sweet spot with max stopping power when releasing the brake. If the first instant shock did not cause the rider to freeze and wipe out, then chances are that the rider releases way way too much brake and runs into whatever...
In fact, if it is extremely slippery (i.e. ice), I sometimes prefer to ride with only one finger on the brake lever. This much said, riding with two fingers on the levers takes some getting used to.
In traffic, with frequent gear changes, I do often prefer to use all fingers on the clutch though...
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18 Sep 2012
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For what it's worth -
Many years ago I broke my little and ring fingers. Both the bones were completely snapped.I had excellent treatment, during which the consultant demonstrated to me where the strength of the hand lies.
The index and middle fingers aren't all that strong. But have more dexterity than any other part of the hand.
Most of the hand's strength when gripping is in the little and ring finger, and that muscled area below the little finger.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
But fits in nicely with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelie
- -Fingers on levers for quicker response time
- -Not having all fingers on lever for better throttle control and better grip on the handle bars
- -Improved lever control of both clutch and brake through having to use more strength on fewer muscless for the same degree of input, hence less chance of making large and uncontrolled input changes
I think the latter is most important, and not only offroad, but in all conditions... mostly to prevent wheel lockup in cases of emergency braking.... kind of like a human ABS
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For longer than I can remember I've ridden with index and middle fingers on the brake.
There was a time though - a long, long time ago, - when 2 hands on the brake was the usual requirement......
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18 Sep 2012
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Quote:
I'm never entirely convinced by 'blanket' rules,
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I agree. I think folks should try riding with both 2- and 4-fingers on the controls and see what works best for them.
I have found on most bikes that for me 4-fingers on the clutch and 2-fingers on the front brake works best.
__________________
Bruce Clarke - 2020 Yamaha XV250
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8 Oct 2012
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A Two-Finger Thought or 2...
Hi All, interesting discussion. I have a few years off teaching both off-road and on, super bikes, trials, and motocross, etc... In competition when we look at the hand around the grips the opposing thumb is usually close to the third finger (under the grip) with the pointer and middle finger are on top of the levers pointing towards the number plate (or in your case the headlight). Some racer only use one finger of the levers but that's usually off-road with a single disk and caliper, and a hydraulic clutch.
One thing I see overlooked when using this sort of hand position is the need to re-adjusting the levers. The levers seem to work best sliding between the first and second joints of the fingers. That's our target functional range.
SO, the levers need to be adjusted for three things:
1. With levers fully out they should lie in the crease of the first joint.
2. At full brake or clutch-in the lever should lie in the crease of the second joint.
3. Full function (brake or clutch) needs to occur before the levers touch the remaining fingers wrapped around the bar.
The above is optimum race configuration but gives you something else to think about if you decide to start using less that four fingers on your levers. Also the newly adjusted functional ranges need to be learned. Practice both braking and friction zone in a safe open place.
In sum, two fingers gives increased control and more sensitivity but requires some wrench time and learning a new way before heading into traffic.
Just a few thought for your consideration...
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9 Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
I have a few years off teaching both off-road and on, super bikes, trials, and motocross, etc...
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Small understatement
How's the world tour going?
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9 Oct 2012
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RTW with two fingers
Doing well, thanks for asking. I had to fabricate a new front end for the GS after pounding the crap out of the stock forks in Africa.
Now working with the engineers at Reiger to design shocks especially for an off-road sidecar outfit. Weird stresses that make right turns different from left so the suspension has to respond differently depending on which way I'm turning.
Still use two-fingers to brake even with the extra weight of a sidecar because I upgraded to new 1200GSA brake calipers, plumbed the sidecar brake into the front brake circuit and and added a thumb-brake through the ABS unit to fire the rear brake.
Sorry for the off-topic photos but here are some before and after shots:
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9 Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
Doing well, thanks for asking.
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Good to hear it. Seems a long time since the HUMM last year.
(it's Dave here, husband of Sarah, the 'chick in the sidecar'  )
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9 Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
In sum, two fingers gives increased control and more sensitivity but requires some wrench time and learning a new way before heading into traffic.
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Just to clarify... increased control of your braking by pulling harder with fewer fingers, or increased control of other things due to having spare fingers to do them with?
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9 Oct 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash
Just to clarify... increased control of your braking by pulling harder with fewer fingers, or increased control of other things due to having spare fingers to do them with?
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Interesting question. It takes us to the type of bike you are riding. Harder pull with two fingers assumes two fingers are nor optimum. You know, brake and clutch cables instead of hydraulic actuation, internal expanding drums instead of disk(s), power assist, etc. Then add-in ABS or not...
There are some systems that require more pressure on the levers. That'sthe bottom line. So if are rider is weak in the hands for some reason then he or she may be forced to use all four-- in some situations.
But where I was going was more about sensitivity. Let's say I am braking and my forks have compressed a bit. Now I need to downshift. Let's assume I need to match input and output shaft speeds in the gearbox for smooth downshifts. That means I have to blip the throttle for each downshift. If I can't slide the brake lever between the first and second joins without changing pressure on the lever, each time I blip the throttle the forks will pogo and effect traction.
I'm sorry, I'm rambling here a bit because I'm on the road and trying to pack-up and clutch-out. So hopefully I started some lines of thought, to start some discussion and to add something to your rider's toolbox of skills. But I gotta go...
The Is NO right way to ride. Just options from that rider, on that bike, on that day.
Yours,
Coach
This was me back in the 60's with four fingers required:
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