This is one of those really interesting threads. Thanks for the accolades frinch11. But the comment which has really stuck with me was from TonyP who wrote:

I am just back from 10,000 miles across Russia - about 25% on bad and 10% on very bad or non roads. Others, who havn't done it, call it an adventure but I don't. It was in truth little more than a trip from London to Devon, across part of the moor, and back - 50 times!

I'm very inclined to agree. And then a few minutes ago I read about the little known explorer Frederick George Jackson (see South Pole, North Pole News and Guide) who, "explored Australia on horseback, sailed across the Atlantic on a whaler, made a legendary winter crossing of Siberia, and in his spare time read medicine at Edinburgh University and launched his career as a travel writer." He was also an Arctic explorer. He was born in 1860. When I read this I thought, Has the bar been lowered in the past 150 years?? Is this part of the dumbing down process?

When I/we say, Oh there's no such thing as the middle of nowhere anymore, tourists are everywhere, etc etc.. Is this a cop out? So what if tourists ARE everywhere, and the middle of nowhere is hard to find. Wouldn't it make sense for us to then stretch ourselves further and find more challenging routes, ways to travel etc? And this is NOT to denigrate what anyone is doing presently!!!!!

But I think of T.E. Lawrence for example, and Ted Simon who was the first RTW biker and wonder where/who the new 'real' explorers are? And what the definition of that would be??? I'm thinking aloud here. And hoping I won't be shot down too much on this.... ouch. ;-)

Lorraine

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Corax, around the world by bicycle

Very cool. And of course there's the Goliath guy, the one walking around the world....
L

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In the not so distant future, tune into the TV to watch the parapalegic husband and wife team who are dragging themselves around the world with the use of winches...while being filmed.
The husband is Chinese, a jew and past KBG agent. The wife is Nigerian, hindu, ex-lesbian...and pregnant.

Energy drink and clothing sponsrships are still available....

My, you're in a pissy mood tonight LR. ;-)

I don't think either of the aforementioned travellers are doing this as a publicity stunt. Wallking around the world is an extreme commitment and not something you do for kicks. Difficult to save up for an expedition which takes so many years. Explorers from years ago were either from wealthy families, government or privately funded. I suppose energy drinks and clothing are the modern-day equivilent???

As for my 'dog and pony show,' I'm not sponsored. Don't want to answer to anyone. However, if anyone wants to drop 20 grand my way, we can talk. ;-)
Lorraine

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Lorraine,
I'm actually in a very good mood. I was making light, good or bad, of what's perceived as 'extereme'/'real', etc. And the limits, of which there are none.
I have no clue as to your own doggie deal, really, but I do love dogs...and cats...and etc.
It's sometimes difficult to understand the meanings and intentions of people's posts on the Net.

"It's sometimes difficult to understand the meanings and intentions of people's posts on the Net."

Oops, my mistake! Put it down to my being in a city for almost a month. It's obviously getting to me. :-( My apologies for misinterpreting your words.
Lorraine

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An adventure exists in one place only- in the mind of whoever is having the adventure. Anyone else's take on that adventure will be inaccurate and worthless- just an inaccurate story.

LR,

It's been on UK TV! Don't know about the ethnicity etc etc side of this non-story, but they were definitely dragging their sorry backsides across somewhere in Africa in wheelchairs and who knows what else, perhaps as just one more charity based stunt - I really don't know any more because I was not the slightest bit interested, but you know how it is; you turn on a TV for some news and you get inudated with adverts for the latest TV producer's nonsense.
Reality TV is still the biggest thing on the TV in the UK and, if anything, increasing in coverage is my guess; afterall it is cheaper than finding and paying for real talent or reporting factually on interesting/newsworthy events.

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Dave

So are you saying no one else should comment on the travel reports or ride plans of others?

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The only person who can answer the question "What is adventure motorcycling?" to the satisfaction of the person asking, is the person asking.
You can have an opinion and you can comment on anything you like.
The point is that there can never be a definitive answer. So to the question "What is adventure motorcycling?" the most helpful answer I can offer is "Don't ask me"
It's similar to asking "What is happiness?"
I don't mind having your opinion on that Patrick.
I really enjoy your contributions and have found them useful, entertaining and informative.

"What does adventure motorcycling mean to you?" can be answered but was not the question asked.

"An adventure exists in one place only- in the mind of whoever is having the adventure."

If this is not the case then tell me where else it exists.

Lorraine - I think you've hit it pretty much spot on - or rather the way I think about it!

I've been reading the Faber book of explorers of late and there are people in there who sailed into the unknown knowing that their crews would hang them on the ship if they sailed 'too close to the edge'. There are people who would start out on a journey REALLY not knowing if they were coming back or what they would find - in my mind that's adventure.

The link to modern day exploration is more strained I think... money and sponsorship has always been an important part... in olden times you would sell your soul to the highest bidder to fund your expedition just so you could go - the sponsor would get land rights, or mineral rights, or just plain old bragging rights - but the explorer would always have to do some work or something to get the money....

Today many people get sponsorship to carry out journeys they otherwise couldn't afford, they sell themselves and their time to get cash and the sponsors get bragging rights and other advertising... it's not that different to the time when.

But the difference today is that none of us really expect NOT to come back from a trip - we accept a certain amount of danger but we really don't think we wont be coming back, and we certainly are not heading into the unknown - I think exploration now is about breaking records and carrying out scientific research in locations otherwise not considered normal.

Top Gear this week features Jeremy and James driving to the North Pole... yes they drove in a car... to the North Pole... WTF!?!?! Is that adventure driving? They made light of the fact that they got there in ease and comfort....

So... I guess after all of this my point is that Adventure Motorcycling today is not about exploration in the wider sense, it's a personal journey that allows the rider to explore their own mind, their comfort zone and how hard they can push themselves beyond the 9-5.

m

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If this becomes a bit long (it shouldn’t but just in case) I apologise in advance.

What a great question.

Adventure: noun [C or U]
an unusual, exciting and possibly dangerous activity such as a journey or experience, or the excitement produced by such an activity:

Motorcyclist noun [C]
a person who rides a motorcycle

So, to my way of thinking it is doing something or going somewhere new, which gets you excited both at the prospect and while you’re there. Then choosing to do it on a bike. Simple don’t you think.

However there are some i have found who believe it’s about difficulty, distance, off the beaten track, RTW etc. etc. Personally I would ask them to challenge their own reasons for doing it. Look at all the books Sam’s “Into Africa”, Ted Simons “Jupiter’s Travels” for example. Read them again, it was about discovery, discovery of themselves and how they interact with the world around them. It, I believe, was not about the distance or about being labelled an Adventure Motorcyclist.

Perhaps to some the title “Adventure Motorcyclist” is more important than the journey. Surly a person who has ridden 36k around the world is no better a rider than someone who has done 36k around Europe. They only have different experiences. May I suggest that riding through some back streets of a major European city can be equally if not more adventurous than some of the places on a RTW.

Lastly it would be a sad day if this happy band of wanderers who choose to have their own personal adventures on motorcycles became subject to the same segmented, clicky divisions we experience almost everywhere else in today’s society. Let just be a group of people who get together every now and then, or meet up on the road to share a personal glimpse into our adventures and swap some stories.

Instead of “Adventure Motorcyclist” as I hate being labelled I’m just someone who suffers from Dromomania.

Sorry if this is long but I did warn you.

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Kas,

“Never argue with an idiot - we'll drag you down to our level, then beat you with experience”

mattcbf600, I just heard of a book, Out There, In the Wild in a Wired Age, Ted Kerasote - Writings in Nature, The Environment, Indigenous Peoples, and Outdoor Recreation which vaguely pertains to the idea of going into the unknown, and truly not knowing if you were going to return. At the risk of being redundant, perhaps part of what takes the adventure away in the present day is because we are so hooked into being 'in contact.' I know even when I was traveling across the US with a cell phone, when I knew I was going somewhere that didn't have reception, I went through some momentary fears. Not in terms of being somewhere dangerous, but of cutting that umbilical cord. Twenty years ago it could take a month to pick up letters from a poste restante. I doubt 'kids' nowadays even know what that is! ;-) 100 years ago, the letter might never arrive.

However, stepping back in time a hundred years, did Shackleton etc explore thinking they wouldn't return??? Do we consider that now? I'm not sure they ever did, or we do. I wonder if there's an invincibility 'adventurers' feel which transcends eras. And perhaps that invincibility is perhaps what gives people the bravado to go? What does your Faber book say? Of course, the memoirs travelers kept ages ago are different than the ones now. They were more concerned with technical data than 'feelings'.

"...Adventure Motorcycling today is not about exploration in the wider sense, it's a personal journey that allows the rider to explore their own mind, their comfort zone and how hard they can push themselves beyond the 9-5."
Or perhaps that much easier than the 9-5??? Commutes can be gruelling...

kas55-If you're being long-winded, I'm rambling. ;-)

"Surely a person who has ridden 36k around the world is no better a rider than someone who has done 36k around Europe. They only have different experiences."
I would think perhaps different skills. It can take huge amounts of patience to cross some borders... ;-)

"May I suggest that riding through some back streets of a major European city can be equally if not more adventurous than some of the places on a RTW."
Certainly more dangerous!

"Lastly it would be a sad day if this happy band of wanderers who choose to have their own personal adventures on motorcycles became subject to the same segmented, clicky divisions we experience almost everywhere else in today’s society."
I don't think those on this thread are guilty of this. I think we're just philosophizing a bit (escapism) and having fun with an interesting thread. But, I get your point.

Lorraine

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