Great post skysurfer, hit every nail there I think. I believe your predections are going to come around one day sometime soon, that buck toothed ham is going to inflict a lot more pain on us yet!

Same to you Walkabout, your prediction is also correct, we are going to Bash some Taffs! Woopwoop.

I may have had a or two.

Happy Riding

Joel

As I said earlier in this thread... they're the Harry Potter of the biking world... to purists HP is a load of tosh... to the general public some enjoyable reading... both have something to offer to general viewers.

Skysurferboy... you seem to know an awful lot about TV production and how much the BBC paid for just the TV rights for LWD..... perhaps you could explain where you've got your information from? I'd be very interested in hearing.

m

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Well Joel... how do you feel about the predictions now... still want to bash some taffs?

England 19 : Wales 26

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The game was there to be lost!

High time this thread went to the bar BTW.

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Dave

agreed......

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I'm on a long work trip abroad and have too much time on my hands which is when I get involved with threads like this. They're great! Fantastic.

Managed to get through a whole load of books on this trip including Long Way Down and Ted Simon's Dreaming of Jupiter. Both are well worth the read if you like bikes and travel - I like the way Ted tells his stories - his slideshows are always good value at the HU meeting.

My feeling about Ewan and Charley is that they don't deserve the grief they seem to attract here and almost every other biking forum. There are elements that may not appeal to everyone but as far as I see it they have put together a bike travel programme that is on the TV and without them we would have nothing. My hat comes off to everyone who has done this whether it is Austin and the guys in Mondo Enduro and Terra Circa or Kevin and Julia Sanders on their Globebusters trip. All very different trips.

The point is that these guys have done the mileage on their bikes from A to B. The whole support crew issue is irrelevant - they are only in place for logistical reasons and cannot make the riding any easier or less enjoyable. If Ewan and Charlie were hopping into the support truck whenever there was too much mud or the road got a bit tough then that would be one thing. They never did, they rode the distance and fair play to anyone who has done that. (Anyone remember Ffyona Campbell?)

Sure when things go wrong - be it mechanically, an accident or on the paperwork front - then this is where the support crew becomes useful. In reality though it only speeds up any delay that any solo rider would face waiting for a spare part to be shipped over or tracking down a local mechanic or spending a few days waiting on an embassy. However that is not what the trip is about. It's about the riding and each to their own on that.

I have never done a RTW like they have. I would very much like to. My first bike trip (first time on a bike infact) was on an Enfield Bullet coming back from India to the UK. It was a very different trip but I can't ever think to slag them off because they did a trip very differently to mine. I've never done a London-Cape Town let alone a John O'Groats-Cape Town trip but I certainly would like to. It'll be different for sure and better for me - simply because it's my decision how it will be organised. I'll stop here before it becomes a rant - I've made my point.

Basically they have hit upon a good formula. They can do something they like doing for a few months which is good publicity for them and a whole number of charities. Makes a stack of cash and have a pretty good adventure.

I stand up and salute all fellow bike travellers past, present and future. Hope we get to see more films as a result on the TV. Sure as heck beats most of the crap we are supplied with.

Matt

long threads are great. I joined in coz I'm stuck at home nursing a crushed foot after a biking accident so have plenty of time to keep myself amused on the HUBB.

As you say Matt Charley n Ewbie have hit upon a good fomula which they are exploiting to the max with TV coverage and merchandising. Good luck to them it certainly is better than an episode of sodding Bargain Hunt or Homes under the friggin Hammer but lets not fool ourselves that it is real adventuring.

Nobody but the inner circle on each of those rides (LWA/LWD/Dakar) will know exactly what went on. They could have trailered the bikes all the way and rode a few hundred yards for the camera or had several replacement bikes flown out after problems. They might also have ridden every last inch or had someone ride the tough bits for them or had nowt in the panniers or stunt doubles or been abducted by aliens.......That's the magic of telly! How totally genuine and truthful the depiction of events was you'll never ever know and in the industry such deceptions are called 'acceptable artifice' and are widely used and justified.

On a trip like that the riding is by far the EASIEST bit! It's the bit we all love and the reason we do it. Trips are not about 'the riding' though are they? If that were the case then why not ride up and down the M1 motorway all day for 2-3 weeks? I like being on my bike as clearly Charley n Ewbie do but commutting to work is not the same as blasting the dunes in the Sahara or negotiating a mountain pass. Our biking travels are about so much more than just riding. The fact is with 'adventure' travelling of all kinds the word adventure implies some element of danger or hazard. When those elements are removed by having scores of people moving mountains to make your journey easier the 'adventure' has therefore been diluted. The famous saying "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" applies to all of the hassles(read learning experiences) you get on a trip.

Dealing with customs, officials, planning,map reading, navigating, prep'ing bikes, finding fuel and food and shelter are ALL part of the experience and just as important as 'the riding'. As are the riding in dirty gear, not bathing, camping out , the places you visit, the route decided upon and the people you meet along the way etc. Doing such a trip 'in a bubble' as C+E seems to have done is to miss all of that. Anyone who delegates the responsibilty of the above tasks is losing out on those elements and it's only my opinion but I feel they are poorer for it. As the beatles said " money can't buy you love" it can buy the illusion of love and many other illusions too, such as the illusion you are a bona fide adventurer.

I guess the reason some people on the HUBB get so absolutely furious with these 2 is that they are so passionate about what they think is a misrepresentation of adventure travelling and motorcycle culture. I did too once, now I roll my eyes instead.

As someone earlier in the thread has pointed out I think Claudio was the unsung hero of both the LWA and LWD. Unlike the other 2 he rode the same distance, the same roads but all the while he was WORKING hard filming and directing Chaz n Ewbie. He had to put up with broken bikes and crashes aswell as being crashed into by the itinerant Mr Boorman. As always afterwards he was softly spoken and stoical. The guys behind the camera are the real heroes............

Can't wait for the next 'adventure'

How embarassing to set yourself up for a fall like that, on a public forum too! And then to come crashing down. Ha, ha! Even makes me cringe!

Not at all Ken, the game was won by half time and lost in the second half; that's Rugby for you - it beats football hands down.
My view yesterday was based on my thoughts on form; this turned out to be wrong, but I didn't have money on it so, no worries.

Now that we have seen all of the teams, I reckon France are the likely champs for this season - we will see how they get on next weekend against, let me see now, oh yes, Ireland.


Now this thread must be destined to be in the bar.

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Dave

Hi Sky Surfer,

Hope that foot is on the mend and you are back on the road again soon. Until then the thread continues. Some of what you say I agree with and some I have to disagree with - I guess that's the great thing about this. Everyone has an opinion about how they would do it but I just feel they have received a lot more grief than they merit.

It is true we don't know all the details but I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt. For all the stuff that they didn't do which was pretty routine and dull (visas, border fixing etc), I honestly believe that they did ride from UK to South Africa - surely the LWD is not such a conspiracy. Crikey! Perhaps it really wasn't even C+E! We've been duped!

I disagree when you say the riding is the easy bit - those are infamously bad roads in Sudan/Ethiopia/northern Kenya. It is not the M1. The represent a challenge that once complete is very satisfying but at the time when the bike breaks, you come off in the sand or get taken out by a crazy driver, it is an experience that unites us all. We see the same scenery and are exposed to the whatever Africa just throws up. However, I do agree that this is the fun bit even if at the time it doesn't seem that way!

The preparations, visa hunting, unscheduled delays, bike problems, illnesses etc are all part of the trip - but more peripheral aspects than the main focus. For the "average" trans Africa biker this is something that you have to go through and suffer. It's part of the experience but it's not why you do the trip. The focus is the ride itself, the locations you end up in and the chance meetings you make along the way.

I wonder whether cyclists would argue that us bikers are less adventurous than they are? It's the same trip involving where we go but the method is different. I'm not sure if this is the point that the E+C haters are making - because they had so much help it doesn't count.

LWR and LWD are not my "ultimate bike trips" but it is a start that might lead to more coverage for this type of show.

Claudio was indeed a star - you have to respect his determination on those roads when the riding was obviously difficult. In the book there is recognition by C+E that the support crew made the trip possible but during the show they didn't always come across as being totally appreciated.....

Cheers!

Matt

PS I am not Charlie's mum

If I remember rightly, Ffyona Campbell claimed to have walked ALL the way when in fact she did not and took rides in a pick up/ car etc...... I'm not making small of her achievement, she did after all walk a hell of a long way, but she did also LIE, people could have forgiven her if she just said "look guys, i'm knackered and cant face this bit of the journey,so I'm gonna ride this one out" she did not.
Yes Charlie n Ewan may have 'ridden the distance' as you say. but 5* Hotels? Huge backup crews? 3 guys picking their Bikes up whenever they drop em? , Thats hardly Hardy Traveller routine is it?

The LWD & LWR Programme Makers make people think that to RTW you have to have a BMW1200GS with all the kit etc etc etc.. you don't NEED all that crap to Adventure your way round this Planet! BMW on the other hand are laughin all the way to the Bank!

Martyn

Hi Charleys Mum (er I mean Matt),

The foot is healing nicely thanks but I'm going for some more X rays today as the pain on the top of my foot is still not gone and it's 3 weeks since the accident.

I agree with what you say. The riding can be hard and be the reason for most peoples trips. However I like a lot of things about my short trips not just the riding. Sure the visas and customs/carnets are a pain in the ass but once you've done it a few times it gets a little easier. I remember being very green and naive at the Moroccan border on my first biking trip to Africa and getting ripped by the toothless little bastard that skanks unsuspecting travellers. But what should I have expected?? I felt a right tw@t driving off into Morocco but was better prepared on the way back. Chaz n Ewbie didn't have to bother with all that though and sent one of their minnions to do it therefore learning nothing.

I agree with Martynbiker too that now everyone at home watchin the telly believes that to do any sort of trip you need a 1200GS and a support team of 4x4s. Hell a couple of mates I know went to the Nurburgring on their bikes with their wives driving the now obligatory 4x4 'support vehicle' behind them. One of the guys laughed at me when I said that people do the LWA trips on their own without a team sorting out visas and support trucks. I even sent him links to the HUBB and AMH, Dave Beers website. He said it was all bullsh1t and that it couldn't be done. These are sensible intelligent people who have watched a few LWA episodes. For as many people who decide to buy a bike and go off to Africa on their own I think a similar number will be put off thinking that it's an impossible task.

I saw a music programme on the telly (former musician myself) last week. One of the talkin heads (now famous muso) said that he'd seen Yes at a gig and thought "I can't do that. I'm not that good" he then went to see the Sex Pistols at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester and after the gig went and bought a guitar. His band ended up having the biggest selling 12inch record in history. I think C&E might just be having the wrong effect on some people........but that's just my opinion. ;-)

'Well Joel... how do you feel about the predictions now... still want to bash some taffs?
England 19 : Wales 26'

Ahem..er, the pitch was too wet, and the ref was against us, and the day of the week had a 'y' in it, and there was this one bird and it flew over the stadium at the wrong time, but it wasn't the one we were playing in, it was in Kobe, and it flapped its wings and there was a hurricane in Java so the scrum half had a sore calf and the temperature of the magic sponge was green.

Er..yeah, we won the first half though!



Good comparison Skysurfer, I like it. CanE are the new 'Yes.' Does that make Ted Simons Sid Vicious? Incidentally 'Cain' was the biblical progenitor of all evil who killed the only thing he really loved. Spooky? Or just an serendipitous abbreviation and an injured and overly bored biker? You decide! Incidentally, as a fellow cripple, I hope you get well soon.

'I remember being very green and naive at the Moroccan border on my first biking trip to Africa and getting ripped by the toothless little bastard that skanks unsuspecting travellers.'

As long as it wasn't just me who got skanked by a toothless bastard in Morocoo. Your point is very valid though, it is the incidentals that provide the anecdotes to bore people with for years to come, it isn't the stage managed and oh so heart felt encounters with locals. It isn't lighting your gas on TV like a retarded monkey, it isn't just another boring five star resort to stay in. If we all had minions, we wouldn't have had those experiences. Then again, we would all be multimillionaire lightsabre wavers. Swings and roundabouts!

Happy Riding

Joel

Just got sent the series and watched it over a few weeks. Shit loads better than Eastenders and not as good as Lost. Makes it pretty much normal TV in my book - something to watch after work. Quite enjoyable, and if E & C have the cash to do it that way and in doing so make even more money then good luck to them...
G

That's exactly it. They're painting a picture of themselves that they're the real deal, when quite clearly (to us anyway) they're not. It's not that they're unlikeable, they're just fake. Whether it's bikes, cars or anything else that I actually care about, I just can't stand people who are fake. If you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk as well and do it off your own back, not with someone holding your hand.

And so what if people's attitudes towards them are elitist. IMHO, people who have done the same trips, without C&E huge resources have earned that right.

Jeremy Clarkson is another one whose mouth has made him, in the public's eyes anyway, the definitive expert on everything 4 wheeled. Those who actually know what they're talking can see through him straight away. I can give quite a few specific examples but I'll keep it on topic. The Canonball and Gumball Rallies are full of people just like E&C, posing and trying to make themselves look like pseudo-racing drivers. Really, they're just irritating wankers with far too much money/time on they're hands.

As for the BMW GS, Bike magazine voted it the "coolest" bike ever made, whatever thats supposed to mean. Their saving grace was that they only meant ones that were battered to hell, caked in mud and still had import tax stickers on it from wherever it's owner had taken it. Ones bought for "bopping around Kensington" as they put it were definitely "not cool". So, when was the last time you saw one that wasn't cleaner than clean?