Hello everyone,

the HUBB is mainly 2-wheel oriented, I know, however from a certain age, I found that travelling the world on a bike is no longer first choice. In particular when it comes to journeys to more remote locations requiring more gear, provisions and creature comforts to be carried.

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itinerary.ALG.2324.ex.pdf (52.7 KB, 120 views)

Am surprised that after all the views there has been no replies,
Algeria looks like a massive untapped area for adventure bikes and cars, is it very difficult to get paperwork or visas, i do realise there are areas that would be not the safest places to roam but i do think most people on this forum accept this, having worked in morocco i think this would be very much the same but on a larger scale, anybody have any more info on this country,

@jbrevel, thanks for pointing that out. It´s maybe to do with the old animosity between bikers and 4-wheelers. To many, cars and trucks are the enemy no.1 and vice versa.

That aside, Algeria is little known in the English speaking world. The fascination is with Mauritania, for whatever reason. When you compare the two countries, M. is rather barren and nowhere near the spectacular beauty of the Algerian Sahara.

When I was researching the first motorcycle ride around the world (1912-1913) by Carl Stearns Clancy I found this map drawn by the 22 year-old MOTORCYCLE ADVENTURER (name of the book about his accomplishment). In the text I wrote that he said they really didn't know what to do with him and his Henderson motorcycle, so in he went.


I tried the same in 1991, 2002, and again in 2006, also tried securing a visa over that time in the USA, France and Morocco...all to no avail, even when I spoke in French :-) The one card I could have played was using my security clearance (USA), but opted to try instead my journalist/press card - which didn't work. There was one offer to tag along on an expensive guided tour...Clancy didn't follow a guide on a tour, so I also passed in the spirit of his adventurous journey around the globe.


Clancy highly praised the scenery of Algiers as he crossed it, and noted his motorcycle was the first, to his knowledge, to be seen by camels.

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__________________
Sun Chaser, or 'Dr.G', Professor of Motorcycle Adventure at SOUND RIDER magazine. Professional Motorcycle Adventurer/Indian Motorcycle Racer/journalist/author/global economist/World's # 1 Motorcycle Adventure Sleeper & Wastrel
Soul Sensual Survivor: www.greataroundtheworldmotorcycleadventurerally.co m

Sunchaser: I'd have to wonder about claiming "journalist" in applying for a visa--that's always been something to avoid, AFAIK. And US security clearance is likely even worse. Any reason you didn't just say "teacher," as many do?

You were applying for an Algerian visa? Or for a specific route?

No shortage of interest in southern Algeria, as indicated in other threads over the years.

The absence of responses might have more to do with the appearance (in the original post) of a commercial tour offering. If you're describing a professional tour--as you state you've been conducting for 10 years in Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya--that will narrow the field of responses. I'd guess that calling out "animosity" between transport preferences will tend to do the same.

Mark

@mark..dunno, a commercial tour is impossible at that rate. The background of an ex-commercial operator can only be beneficial, no ?

The animosity is a fact, in EU at least, big time. You never see the bikers and the 4x4 folk mingling, they are not even talking to each other, say on the ferry, where there would be plenty of time during a 24hr crossing to Africa.

That might be different in the US now. I appreciate, that calling out the truth is not to everyones liking, however, when planning to travel Algeria, it is better to face the facts than beating around the bushes. In general, that is.

Curious you say the Algerian Sahara hasn't been travelled by people in their own 4x4's for a long time when its simply not true.

The relevant sub-forum has details of people who have travelled the region over the last few years and both Geko Expeditions and Acacia Aventura regularly run tours there for similar prices.

Claiming that there's "animosity" between 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers as a "fact" might lead people like me to assume they don't want to join your tour. In 88 countries on a 2 wheeler and most of Europe in a 4 wheeler I've never given nor received animosity to/from people who travel by the "other" vehicle type. What am I doing wrong? How should I change my attitude?

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CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Markhaft: Re your query above: "I'd have to wonder about claiming "journalist" in applying for a visa--that's always been something to avoid, AFAIK. And US security clearance is likely even worse. Any reason you didn't just say "teacher," as many do?
You were applying for an Algerian visa? Or for a specific route?"

Hopefully to reduce any stressful degree of wonderment and enhance your level of AFAIK re: how to apply for, and secure, a visa for Algeria, and elsewhere, I have sent you a pm to this off topic query.






Regards,

__________________
Sun Chaser, or 'Dr.G', Professor of Motorcycle Adventure at SOUND RIDER magazine. Professional Motorcycle Adventurer/Indian Motorcycle Racer/journalist/author/global economist/World's # 1 Motorcycle Adventure Sleeper & Wastrel
Soul Sensual Survivor: www.greataroundtheworldmotorcycleadventurerally.co m

No one has crossed the Sahara with his/her own vehicle for the past ten years. I am not talking about going down South on tarmac, that has always been feasible. No tour operator has run self-drive tours in Algeria with a true desert crossing over that time either.

If you look at Geko´s itinerary, you'll see that they travel on tarmac to Djanet and do a loop in the Tassili..which is something entirely different to what is proposed here. Their rates are w/o ferry and visa, i.e. there is at least 1.3k on top of what you see. Comparing apples with pears is not helpful.

I can assure you, it is impossible to run a commercial tour for 4x4´s over 3weeks in DZ for 2.5k. If you can do that, you are in business, big time, there is strong interest from Italy, France and the German speaking countries.

@Chris..you might want to open your eyes and ears. I witnessed animosity towards yourself: you brought your bike to a 4x4 show in the UK, quite a number of folks were commenting: "what does he want here on his bike?" And that was not said in a curious way.

Another incident I saw on a motorway on the continent: a car cuts across a bike, the biker accelerates and kicks off the far side mirror of the car with his foot whilst overtaking on the wrong side. A friendly gesture ? Maybe not.

That aside, the animosity was not my idea, a lot has been written about it and studies carried out, just one example:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01457518301854

If you search the web, you'll find plenty about the topic. It could help to stop that wishful thinking and face the facts instead.

It seems you need to do more research. People have crossed the Algerian desert in their own vehicles in the last 10years but maybe you haven’t been looking in the right place.

A Swiss couple are there at the moment, links to their websites age are in the sub forum, they’ve also escaped the need for escort during their trip. Friends were in the Algerian Sahara last autumn but they don’t publish anything online.

With an included ferry your price is cheap but not beyond the reach of other operators pricing.

My earlier comment was not a criticism of your proposal but to raise the error in your your mistaken comment that nobody has travelled the region in their own vehicles, which is simply not true.

If you truely want to gather some interest in you recce, then it may be wise to make less antagonistic comments online.

Looks like I've dodged the hugest of bullets. Thanks.

Now having a lot of time on my hands and never having been to Algeria (always wanted to go until those terrorist kidnappings occurred in 2003), I was in the market to join your "tour". With your animosity, seemingly to most things, I'm not.

By "travelling" I mean actually travelling outside your home comfort zone to far and not so far away places where there's a brother/sisterhood of vehicle "travellers". Travel broadens the mind. Travellers need travellers.

Road rage?! Some random car driver cutting up a 2 wheeler on a European/North American motorway and having his mirror taken off for his efforts, isn't travelling. It's just the car driver behaving like a d!ck and could lead to a jail sentence. Causing death by dangerous driving.

Why would I want to bring a motorcycle to a 4x4 show? It's a 4x4 show. The clue is in the name. Why are the commenting 4x4 folk not actually travelling somewhere beyond their local weekend event, rather than just speaking nastily about people who might be in the market to buy a 4x4 or take a 4x4 tour or just hoping to meet whom they thought were like minded souls?

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CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

In my best-behaved, mildest, most inoffensive voice...

I'd like to suggest that discussion in this thread return to the topic at hand, which if I remember correctly was something about a planned trip to Algeria. Anyone tempted to post here might first scroll to the top of the page and refresh their memory.

Thanks. I'll now remove my moderator hat and resume misbehaving, speaking harshly, and offending one and all.

Mark

The OP diverted at a tangent and I’d rather not just let those remarks go unanswered.

In my experience this talk about animosity between bike travellers and 4x4 travellers is a load of bull.

Many is the time I’ve had great experiences meeting up with 4x4 owners on the road, and in recent years the HUBBUK meetings have been open to travellers of all persuasions—cyclists, bikers and 4x4 owners.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)