We're just trying to get the information together and it seems like there are a couple of groups planning on crossing China to get down to Pakistan this summer.

Any information that can be shared would be appreciated. We're in no hurry or wishing to do big mileage days, so if there's an opportunity to share costs and help each other with information, planning or transit arrangements we're there.

Carl

Jimmy46,
We are in contact with Navo and looking at our timing dates - July/Aug for 20 days from Mongolian border to Laos. These dates could possibly suit us.
Enquiries at this stage but obviously as we need to understand costs in more detail (plus carnet etc.). Also looking at alternative of container shipping direct from Russia as part of our next planned leg. Let us know if your up for transiting with us at all. As I say nothing defo as yet.

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Yes very definitly interested, also via Pm have been in contact with Wheee who sounds interested in exploring the idea. Where are you in UK?. I am flexible on most aspects route, timing etc my one and only must is I have to be back in UK by August 10th ishh, other than that I am open to all ideas

Regards Jimmy

Cool - will provide more info over next few days (once we start to hear back with costs etc. for both our options re: Navo v container route) - fingers crossed!!!!!!
We're based in Cambs.

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Just registering my interest in the thread, I am looking at Nepal -> Laos a bit earlier, March April May.. I know it's vague but sitting in India and looking at Flying or Biking..

I will try and post the additional information as i get it.

Just waiting sorting Information .. This is what i got back from NAVO...
oh, just 7000 Euro for 20 days ...

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The government permits is really very expensive for one vehicle group. If we add the car hiring, it will cost at least 1000 RMB/Per Day for the vehicle and you also need to cover the empty back cost.

If you are driving from Nepal to Laos’s border and it will cost about 20 days in China. So just a rough estimate of the cost according to our quote system, it would be around 70000 RMB /group (1 vehicle 1 guest). To guarantee the safety of our guide, we will not ask them to sit at the back of guest’s motorcycle, and so every motorcycle team will need guide vehicle.

I hope you can understand that why I haven’t provide the details cost, because it’s unreasonable price which would be. So that’s why I don’t suggest you do this tour in China. No matter how many vehicles, we can help to arrange that, however, we do suggest our guests to do this because that will cost a lot. If you go with several vehicles together, then the most cost of the whole payment could be balance to each vehicle and the price will seems more acceptable. The more vehicles come, the better price for per vehicle will be.
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Thanks Akentigernfox - very useful to know. Costs are what we feared. Will wait back to see if we receive similar quote from Mongolian border end - probably will.
Meantime - feelings on the costs are as follows:
or or maybe
Crikey!

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Just waiting sorting Information .. This is what i got back from NAVO...
oh, just 7000 Euro for 20 days ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The government permits is really very expensive for one vehicle group. If we add the car hiring, it will cost at least 1000 RMB/Per Day for the vehicle and you also need to cover the empty back cost.

If you are driving from Nepal to Laos’s border and it will cost about 20 days in China. So just a rough estimate of the cost according to our quote system, it would be around 70000 RMB /group (1 vehicle 1 guest). To guarantee the safety of our guide, we will not ask them to sit at the back of guest’s motorcycle, and so every motorcycle team will need guide vehicle.

I hope you can understand that why I haven’t provide the details cost, because it’s unreasonable price which would be. So that’s why I don’t suggest you do this tour in China. No matter how many vehicles, we can help to arrange that, however, we do suggest our guests to do this because that will cost a lot. If you go with several vehicles together, then the most cost of the whole payment could be balance to each vehicle and the price will seems more acceptable. The more vehicles come, the better price for per vehicle will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------[/quote]


1000 RMB per day is £90 at current exchange rates, 20x£90=£1800 or 2000 Euros ( I have the Euro symbol on my 4$ key but cannot find how to type it!). I realise there is the return cost of the car but cannot see how you arrive at 70000 RMB. That means the fixed cost is 50,000RMB or £4700 for a visa.... hmm Hope some of the other quotes are a little less.

Jimmy

Jimmy

Jimmy,
My guess is the only way you will be able to do this China leg for under a few thousand dollars per person regardless of how many people you take is to choose the absolutely shortest route through China. I.E. a couple of days riding through Jingjiang and out to Pakistan along the KKH. anything else that vaguely resembles a free and easy 'travelling experience ' you will pay an arm and leg for. Unless you choose to go the full illegal ride and risk it. fly in buy a cheap little Chinese bike and ride off. some people do this and get away with it, personally I would not like to contemplate the consequences if one did fall foul of the Chinese law.
I had a heap of quotes from NAVO and PLATEAU TOURS and no way would they come in under 6-7000 dollars per person and that did not include food or accomodation.
Might bump into you later this year as you go west east and we east west.

Simon

Hi I am aware its not going toi be the bargain of the century.My desire is to ride all the way and as far as I am aware transiting China is the only route since Burma Myanmar is impossible. I am aware of a group who spent 6 days in China with a guide, group was 4 bikes and a 4x4. Their cost per vehicle per day worked out at less than $100. Before someone screams thats too much..how much will it cost to freight your vehicle, fly yourself and clear customs etc. The prices seem to vary wildly, indicating perhaps theres a fair bit of padding...I just need to find a sensible tour company. At the moment we are potentially two bikes and a 4x4 a perfect group. All advice re tour guide companies and how best to negotiate gratefully received.

Jimmy

Bit of a long one but i thought i'd put down my thought's and some more info that i've put together.

BTW.. the 70000 i didn't calculate, that whole section was a direct cut&paste from the email i got back.

I have been talking to other guide companies also, and the reason my quote was so big is becuase they want to put the equivalent as a landcruiser with me, and of course the guide has to have a driver. So instead of driving a fuel efficient 50mpg motorbikeand myself <$10 food & accomodation, I'm fuelling probably a 3km/ltr gas guzzler for 6000km. (return journey included) with a $50 a night food and accomodation each for the guide & driver.

However...
I have been talking to a local Tibet/Chinese couple who run a hotel & cycle everywhere and am hoping that because they have seenme & the bike and stay in the same cheap accomodation that they will be able to talk to their local guide explaining better what i'm after, and I will be able to get a quote back down to the $100 a day price which i think is reasonable considering what i have heard from friendswho have travelled around on group trips with european transport.

One underlying point that i got from talking to them was that they where concerned about the problems for the guide should anything go wrong while you where on the trip, Basically not doing what your told.

This was confirmed by my friend who travelled last year ..

""We got our Group Visa in Kathmandu, it took about a week, and at the time, only Groups could get in. But i also heard you can officially be a 'group of one', just as long as you have a Tibetan AND Chinese guide with you. The guides must be with you "at all times" in Tibet, and although it sounds totally unreasonable, the Chinese troops and police do try to enforce it. We got held up by police while we were shopping for Cook Team, and were not let go until our guide found us, and smoothed it over with some baksheesh. The rules change day to day, depending on the mood of the Chinese Government. It's always going to be hard to get into Tibet. All Individual Visas were denied to backpackers we met at the bars in Kathmandu. ""




I have also tried info from this company.. waiting for my second reply after i specified the trip.

thank you for your email and your inquiry with Hiddenchina.net Ltd. Can I please ask you to provide us with a little bit more information about your planned trip?

For example, we would need to know when you plan this trip approximately. We do have self-drive tours in the area but we would also need to know how you plan to travel exactly.

Please provide us with as many details about your itinerary as possible, we can then get in touch with our local people.

With best regards,

Roman Lange
Founder/Director of Operations
Mobile: +86 13681292401
Fax: +86 (0)10 58570190
Email: rlange@hiddenchina.net
Skype: rl.hiddenchina
Web: Hidden China GmbH - Individuelle Touren, klassische Reisen, Abenteuerreisen, Gruppenreisen, Trekking, 4WD und Motorrad Reisen in China, Tibet und der Mongolei

Hi Akentigernfox
, Your information and conclusions are pretty much the same as mine. If you are just a motorcycle group then the guide has to have a car and a driver, this possibly triples the cost!. Instead of one person you are paying for two and in addition hiring and fueling a vehicle for 40 days and 3000 plus miles.
I have always maintained that the costs can only be reasonable if the group includes a 4x4 with a seat for the guide, if that is possible then the costs can be kept reasonable, seems $100 per day per vehicle is a realistic figure.
I am aware of one group in a 4x4 vehicle that are looking at the costs of transiting China, with any luck the important 4x4 just might be making the trip.
I have e mailed Johns cafe and Tahar of Newlands and am awaiting replies. There was another thread on here with details of several other guide/tour operators, I haver tried to find it using the search function but no luck so far. If someone has compiled a list of tour guides or knows the thread could they let me know please.

Regards Jimmy

Jimmy,
you could try Echo at the below address. he always said we could reduce our costs if we got a 4X4 into our group.

Echo Wang
> Plateau Tours Adventures
> Mobile: 86-139 8211 6935
> Fax: 86-28-8662 1753
> Email: echo@ptatours.com
> MSN: viewtibet@hotmail.com
> Web: China Tour Services,China Tour Packages,China Travel,China Travel


Simon

It looks very likely for us that we will be arranging for our own 4x4 to transit China from Erenhot-Mongolia to Laos this year for approx 20 - 22 days duration. Planned start date looks approx mid-July (around 19th'ish)) - arriving Laos around 10th August. (all subject to confirmation etc.)

Route plan / itinerary currently flexible but likely to include the busy parts and more typical sites initially if possible - ie Bejing, Xian - incredibily busy/highly populated before moving to more quieter climes (hopefully!). Camping where possible mixed with some cheap accommodation stays. And - we'd like to see pandas - maybe around Chengdu - plu gorges and stuff !!! (2 children travelling with us so we have to think about them and what they will/might like).

If anyone has any serious interest to join us / share guide / transit costs, please let us know.

Re: date flexibility - we are unlikely to be able to transit any earlier than 16th/17th July - though any reasonable time later will be fine.

Re: Border exit - we have no flex on exit border (i.e. Mongolia) due to our own plans.

Re: Itinerary - we have flex on route/where we stay & what we do - and please excuse stating the obvious but - all must be pre-agreed prior to booking with agency as we won't be able to detour from this arrangement once made.

Re: Costs - once we have an idea regarding interested parties - we'll make enquiries - so far we have based only on our own requirements.

In order to try to obtain the best cost-wise deal, we are looking to confirm by end Feb latest with whichever agency we choose so this means we have approx 4 weeks from now for anyone wishing to register interest, give time to investigate and arrange any payment/deposits required.

Happy to meet up & discuss in more detail - or by phone or PM.

Andrew & Anne.

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www.overlandwithkids.com

Hi cassie, I am in libya at the moment and my e mail is blocked by local ISP. I am still interested and understand your route cannot be altered. The only way I can go is if you can agree to as early as possible entering China, I must be back in UK for 10 August so need to arrive Laos as early as possible. I would meet you in Mongolia a day or two before entering China. I will let you have all my details on my return to England 21st Jan.

Talk to you then

Jimmy

By the way, the motorbikes are not allowed to ride on the highway in China.