Thanks Mart - looks like the insurance route is the most expensive. Typical

Has anyone managed to find a work around - getting RAC to waive it so that we can use ADAC?

Dave

Hi,
I don't understand your summary sheet, but maybe that's because it's oriented towards the UK and RAC.

I got two CDP's from ADAC (I was in Netherlands): was hassle free.
I got them the same day: I stopped in Munich on my way.
They are REALLY nice people at ADAC. If you call them you maybe need to wait a bit until you get an English speaker if your German is poor.

The rates and the form are EXACTLY the same, 4 years later:
Fee (members) Euro 195 (non-members) Euro 295
Postal delivery charge: Euro 3.50 (zero if you collect it)
Deposit: Euro 3,000 (Item 3: includes Iran, for value motorbike <= Euro 15k)

You need to transfer/give them this: they keep it until you return the CDP.

And you get 100% refund on your Deposit, assuming you follow the rules.

So the ADAC coverage costs you Euro 198.50 or Euro 298.50 (depending if they recognize your RAC membership: but rather join ADAC!!!).
I didn't add in the loss of interest on the Euro 3,000...

Sprechen sie Deutsch? Viva ADAC, RAC ist fur scheisskopfs!!

Herr Alan the Happy HP2 rider....

Hi,
You should seriously consider joining either ADAC or the Dutch AA on your way if you cannot get a waiver from the RAC.

I'd suggest doing whatever it takes to join ADAC direct, and that means registering your bike in Germany.
Is no big deal to do it in NL, but they do make you pay a refundable import tax on your bike (is like Euro 1,000). You do get it back after.

You should find out how to change your bike registration: in the NL it takes a couple weeks to get an appointment, dunno in Germany. but you could make the appointment before.
MUCH quicker than the DVLA: they give you plates at the place you go to in the NL.
You need your bike inspected thee, and pay your tax money: all you need is the right-hand-side headlight to be changed to pass the inspection.
Same place that inspects you gives you your plates in NL, bet it's just as efficient in Germany.
Get German insurance: no big deal I'm sure, I got my Dutch via Internet and phone, MUCH cheaper and less hassle than in the UK.
And the Green card is included.

I don't know if you need to show them a German address: you'd need to research that.
Surely you have a German connection somewhere who will let you use theirs?

Sure is a bit of a hassle, but better than giving the RAC thieving schweinhunds huge amounts of $$$ for nothing.

Alan

I'm not sure ADAC will issue a CDP if the country where the vehicle is registered have their own issuing body?

Has anyone with a UK reg vehicle ever successfully bought a cdp from ADAC?

__________________
www.seeyouwhenwegetthere.com

There are only three ways to get ADAC to issue a CDP:
- to a vehicle/motorbike registered in Germany (that's obviously the bulk of what they do in CDP's)
- to a Netherlands registered vehicle (this is because the NL doesn't have an organization that has agreed to issue CDP) I got two CDP like this
- in theory to a UK registered vehicle if the RAC says it is OK to do that (this is what they seem to have told people: I haven't personally seen this in writing)

Also in theory one could get a CDP from the another EU AA (see list on FIA website), if they were willing. They probably have the same rule that ADAC/RAC has, that you need a waiver. Is worth checking.

I really suggest that anyone who is trying to get a CDP from the UK go look on the FIA website and spend some time on it. And even call-up the FIA offices and discuss the problem.
The information on costs of CDP's (RAC vs ADAC etc) would be a good thing to discuss: you might find a reasonable person there.

The other possibility is that you look thru the list of places where they issue other types of FIA instruments in the UK (not just for CDP, but other stuff). The website lists SIX UK clubs that have membership of FIA for "mobility":
Federation Internationale de l'Automobile[0]=field_memberclub_category%3A131&f[1]=field_memberclub_xml_country%3AUnited%20Kingdom

You can be a member of FIA for other reasons than granting CDP's. Perhaps one of these other organizations might be willing to issue a CDP.
It's worth asking them, although I suspect it's a long shot.

But the problem is that what we want is a hassle for all concerned. There's quite a bit of risk involved for whatever club does it. Sure in theory it's covered by the insurance policy that covers the guarantee, but insurance is never 100% perfect. And they do make an admin charge: but these things are a big hassle.

Look at the people who have been posting on this forum. No offence, but I understand one of them has had at least one, if not two challenges to their CDP. So either they made a mistake or the country they went thru did. Or it was an attempt to try to get money for nothing by the country involved. But either way, a huge hassle for the RAC. I know that ADAC have quite a few issues with CDP's and the people they gave them to not following the rules. I'm amazed they are still so friendly!

Both the RAC and ADAC do this as a service, and sure that's what they are supposed to be doing. But people like us are a very small part of their membership, and are very demanding too.

I think that this issue is going to take quite a bit of work to resolve: I have my doubts that it will be solved by just discussing things on this forum, or searching the internet. It will take some phoning and homework. And maybe paying for a lawyer to challenge the RAC, or else FIA itself.

FIA has procedures where you can make a claim, as well as an appeal. It seems possible to challenge how RAC is administering the CDP on FIA's behalf. Again: look thru the FIA website.

Perhaps the thing to do is the UK guys who need the CDP now get together and pool their money to pay for a lawyer. And ask for donations from other interested people (I'd pay towards it). First do the homework though on what is going to be needed.

I don't need a CDP within the next 12 months, so I'm not going to volunteer to spearhead that. And I will swap my registration to NL before I pay the RAC these crazy amounts.

Best of luck.

Quite few have managed to get a letter of "Non Objection" From the RAC

This is a quote from the RAC in 2013

"Issuing clubs normally only issue Carnets for vehicles registered in their country. However, Carnets may be issued for foreign registered vehicles from countries where there is no issuing club or if written permission is obtained from the home club. This is one of the rules of the convention. If you wish to apply through an alternative issuing club we would have no reason to refuse this, however we want to resolve your concerns and work with you to progress your application for a new Carnet.

Our Carnet team can contact you separately to grant permission if this is something you want to pursue."

This is from the ADAC - Note in our communications with the ADAC they have always been willing to provide us a Carnet - provided we get the letter of non objection

"First of all you have to Provide us with the non-objection, we would than be happy to issue you a Carnet"

Letter of Non Objection
If people were looking for a for a letter of non objection, I would state the reasons for wanting a carnet from the ADAC was due the RAC not providing the same financing options as the ADAC are, and that you would not be able travel under the only option, the insurance method, being offered by the RAC.

They would find it hard to refuse...

__________________
MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

If anyone has been refused a letter of non objection.

Could you please forward me the details, as I am putting together a compliant to be issued to a number of bodies. To go with the petition we have started.

https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-t...ter-rac-carnet


Looking at what the RAC is doing and how this is limiting the rights of UK Travellers, i would be surprised if we did not get a positive outcome from this.

There is no need for a solicitor right now, many questions can be answered by writing directly to the bodies, once we have their arguments / defence (if it is not a positive outcome) it may be the time for a solicitor.

It may be hard work but i will push through on this,

__________________
MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

Actually another item that is really puzzling is that how can the fee structure for a CDP be so completely different from issuing club to club??
They are issuing the same FIA CDP.
And they have the same insurance underwriters.
And it is the same risk: same motorbike/vehicle, same country you go thru, same Euro citizenship/driving licence etc.

And you need to be careful in the wording here, the RAC uses the term "deposit" differently from ADAC.

ADAC has only two real charges:
(1) Issuing fee: Euro 195 or 295
(2) Deposit (which they also call the Guarantee): varies according to vehicle and country you visit, but for a visit by motorbike via Iran or Egypt with a motorbike of value up to Euro 15k it is Euro 3,000
- And they DO take a bank guarantee
And in practice they refund 100% of this (although in the fine print they do say they are "entitled but not obliged" to do so)
So assuming you follow the rules, it costs you Euro 195 (£152) (if you join ADAC)

RAC has at least three charges:
(1) Issuing fee: £215 to £225
(2) "Deposit": (100% refundable) £350
(3) Country specific payment: only 50% refundable
For the same motorbike to Egypt or Iran
Assume £5.9k "chassis value" (I used half of the Euro 15k value):
800% x £5,865 X 10.6% = £4,974

So you have to give them £5,549.
And if you follow the rules, you only get £2,837 back (only 50% of Item 3).
Which means it cost you £2,711.

And for ADAC it was £152!!
That truly is a HUGE difference.

I know from experience that they don't let you claim an unrealistic chassis value: some friends from South Africa asked that.

Anyways, that is something worth asking the RAC to explain/justify in writing.
And THEN to ask FIA about it.
And ask if that is correct according to existing rules.

And THEN, assuming whatever FIA says doesn't make RAC change its tune, you likely need to challenge what RAC does to FIA.
Probably need a lawyer for that to get the right procedure & wording.

But the MAIN thing is not to do anything that will get ADAC upset. They've already said they will issue a CDP with an RAC waiver. So please don't pester them to do anything without that.

Is perhaps one reason why RAC is so unreasonable is that enough UK travellers with CDP's from them caused problems for them?? And thus made things bad for the rest of us? I don't mean Mart and similar travellers, but people who have blatantly abused the CDP: sold vehicles in the country they got to.

The real reason the RAC is in a mess is due their complete incompetence,

I was speaking to their media relations last year about the withdrawal of the Bank Guarantee, and they said that many vehicles were incorrectly valued, many claims they made on the guarantee did not pay out, and many banks complained about guarantee wording.

I think the RAC got themselves in a whole world of mess...

I wont get the ADAC involved as you have stated they are playing ball.

People here should not be at a detriment due to the miss-management at the RAC.

__________________
MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

I re-call Paul Gowan – now long-gone RAC Carnet Officer – telling me once that they had some nasty experiences (read: excessive and unacceptable claims) from carnet holders who were buying vehicles in the UK and importing these into the Subcontinent countries - Pakistan & India - then disposing (selling) them on when they arrived in the region.

Needless to say, these 'travellers’ were defaulting on their carnets, and according to Paul, these scammers then simply dissapeared off the radar. The RAC had to pay-up and settle a lot of claims as a result; hence the high cost of obtaining an RAC-issued carnet for the rest of us.

Racketeering at the RAC’s expense perhaps?

Maybe all a BS story .. but sounded credible to me at the time.

FWIW - setting aside the reletively high costs of RAC carnets, my experiences with them have been mostly okay (justabout!)
.

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Right Way Round ...

Hi all,
And please be careful that what you say on this forum are things that anyone in RAC (or ADAC) could read.

I know from the past that at least one RAC person was on the forum members, and DID read some comment about somebody saying they were going to do something "tricky"....

Of course it is DEFINITELY fine to express your unhappiness with RAC on these matters.
And how awesome ADAC is.

Alan

I've got some good news,

I just got this email directly from the Australian customs:

"Hi xxxxx

Mr McGowan has now produced proof of export of his vehicle.

I refer to a letter from the carnet holder of 20 December 2014 offering evidence of proper discharge of the goods imported under the above-mentioned carnet.

The evidence has been accepted and the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service is satisfied all obligations under the Customs Convention on the Temporary Importation of Private Road Vehicles have been met.

Our claim relating to the above carnet is withdrawn.

Kind Regards

xxxxxxx
Customs Officer
Australian Customs and Border Protection Service
National Temporary Imports & Securities"

So it took me 48 hours to clear a claim, with an email sent at the weekend,

Now its time to hold the RAC accountable for claiming on my Bank Guarantee without notifying me!!

oh and to get my money back with interest ;-)

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MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

Hi All

We now have around 70 signatories to our petition, once we hit 100,

I shall send the petition and a separate letter to the following:

CEO of the RAC,
FIA
AIT

It would be fantastic if you could help us reach 100 in the next couple of days....

Sign the petition here:
https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-t...ter-rac-carnet


I wonder if anything the RAC is doing is breaking these basic rules:

Competition law – an introduction
The law aims to promote healthy competition. It bans anticompetitive agreements between firms such as agreements to fix prices or to carve up markets, and it makes it illegal for businesses to abuse a dominant market position

__________________
MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

I've sent a polite email to the Carnet dept at the RAC requesting a no objection waiver. The auto reply I received said I would get a response in 5 working days - so, sometime after Xmas.

I will obviously share whatever info I get back.

Dave