Quick update on the carnet de passage in the UK:

This cropped up on another part of the Hubb but it is worth mentioning here - the RAC has just withdrawn the bank guarantee option. Reason given was that banks were wanting to specify their own terms rather than accept the RAC legal wording.

This makes the whole idea even more frustrating because the only 2 options now are the insurance indemnity or the refundable deposit (only to a max. of £10,000). So they are virtually forcing people to go down the expensive insurance route. The whole thing stinks in my view and there is little incentive for the normally law-abiding traveller to enter into such a costly and one-sided proposition. I had quite a heated "discussion" with the RAC this morning on this. I spoke to my bank and I can get quite a good deal on a bank guarantee which turns out to be much cheaper than the insurance route. I will persevere with the RAC and see what can be done.

I'd be interested to know how you get on.

I find the excuse about the banks wanting to change the wording a bit odd. The bank is counter-indemnified by you in exactly the same terms as the guarantee given to the RAC so as long as it feels it has sufficient financial cover I doubt it would be too concerned.

Can you get confirmation from your bank that they will accept the RAC's standard guarantee wording? If so, it's difficult to see what the RAC's objection could be.

If they insist on this line then they should at least increase the limit on the deposit they will accept. I've never understood the reason for this ceiling.

In practical terms this could scupper people who want to cross Egypt and therefore need cover for 800% of their vehicle value. If I had had to go down the insurance route for my 3 year trip rather than the bank guarantee it would have cost me a fortune.

I agree with your comments Itchy and yes, the insurance route could be very expensive. Am still persevering with the RAC although they seem to have been rather busy during the last two days! Paul Gowen is the man to talk to and have left messages for him. Will post a further update once I finally speak to him.

I understood Paul had left the department.

Margaret

Certainly in 2010 the legal department of my bank were not happy with the RAC wording about the guarentee of money to be paid by the bank should the money need to be paid.
The bit concerned was the Customs and Excise valuation. In the very small print is says something like " Customs and Excise" can value the vehicle themselves to what the think the vehicle is worth. To the bank that seemed to say that a vehicle valued at £3,000 meant nothing as C+E could ask for more money from the bank than had been deposited.

It was sorted then and we got our carnet after we signed an indemnification for the bank.

I can see this being the end of our trips to Africa as no way can we afford the insurance route.


MIKE

Was there not some discussion on the HUBB a few years ago about UK riders/drivers getting carnets through ADAC, I'll look for it later but as of now here in sunny Colombia it's time for a leisurely lunch at a beach bar. Ride safe.

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Mike
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Mike is riding the twisty road in the sky

Since I need to know this for later in the year I did some googling check this ADAC Reise & Freizeit - Carnet de Passages - Englisch

Paul Gowen does not work in the carnet department any more.

It is common for a customs guarantee not to be limited in amount.

The RACs standard guarantee wording already includes a counter indemnity (ie it says whatever the bank has to stump up to the RAC - and yes this can be more than the theoretical limit - you then need to stump up to the bank) which is why it shouldn't really give a bank a problem provided they have sufficient cover from you. This is the sort of guarantee they give day in day out in a commercial context.

A few years ago ADAC stopped issuing carnets for non-German registered vehicles (it was always cheaper than the RAC and others). Maybe that has now reverted back. It would certainly be useful if that were the case.

I exchanged e mails with ADAC last week and they said they could not issue a Carnet to a UK registered vehicle. The insurance option is a real rip off as in many cases it will be the only option. We do not need a Carnet for a while but it would be good to get them to accept the bank guarantee option again.

So if Paul is out, who to contact?

Does anyone have any info ideas on getting a Carnet for a UK registered bike, which is in my name, but I am an American, who is purchasing the bike in Thailand.

Thanks

The main problem for me is the lack of official confirmation whether each country will accept a temporary import permit for 4x4s.
The RAC have a £10,000 cap on the bond they will accept, and as most 4x4s, and the newer larger bikes, may be of that value to begin with, this writes off the ability to deposit the necessary 800% required for Egypt, even if funds were available.

If a border will easily issue a TIP for 4x4, perhaps the deciding factor may be the difference in cost between TIP fee and cost of carnet getting stamped plus cost of insurance. If you are routing through Egypt the cost will be fairly high for the insurance, however as there does not seem to be a check for actual vehicle value this may allow a slight reduction in cost? As long as the price is realistic they should accept a very modest valuation...

The (off topic) discussion of banks and bankers has been moved to http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-bankers-68480

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TBS.com

There have been some various threads suggesting that Africa is now possible with Temp Imports, including Egypt.

See here and here.

That just leaves the Middle East, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Japan, New Zealand and that other big over regulated place next to New Zealand.

We are currently on our second Carnet, which has been extended once secured with with a Bank Guarantee, which we now have to renew,

Before Christmas the RAC confirmed that we could renew under the current BG, however have now changed their minds after ignoring our attempts to contact them for two months.

We are trying to hold them to information they previously confirmed but this does raise an issue for others who are currently travelling under one and may need to renew soon.

The RAC have not provided any reasons for not allowing us to renew under the BG, all they have said is that they do not accept them anymore. They also have not been able to confirm whether they would be able to release the current BG even if the indemnity was paid for, which may cause further issues.

Does anyone know officially when and why they stopped accepting Carnets?

The alternative is to use the ADAC, we have requested permission in writing from the RAC if they refuse to renew under the BG. Using the ADAC, the total security is significantly less whether provided as a BG or cash deposit.

It is interesting that the ADAC also has a connection to RL Davison, but the costs in the UK are so much higher.

If the ADAC cannot be used I can see that many may not be able to afford overland trips where a Carnet is required, especially more expensive 4x4's than ours.

Will keep you updated as to our progress, if you do have a Carnet issued under BG and are looking to renew you should contact the RAC ASAP.

If anyone else has been through the same with the RAC recently, it would be great to know how you got on,

Many thanks

Martin

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MyOverlandAdventure
OverlandingAssociation.org Overlanding Africa

Thanks everyone for your input on this.

In terms of the insurance indemnity, RL Davison no longer deal with the RAC on this. Miller Insurance are the new brokers for the RAC. Contact is Scott Sinfield. See Home - Miller Insurance Services LLP.

I haven't come across any official reasons for the bank guarantee withdrawal, except to say that I've heard that recently 70% of bank guarantees have not paid out! This is a matter of some embarrassment to the RAC so they are probably trying to keep it quiet.