Hi there,

Difficult one to answer at this time due to the lack of cross-Channel traffic, but does any one know if, post-BREXIT, you now need a CDP if you're transporting your UK-registered/road-legel bike in the back of a van when going to mainland Europe?

Would be for a 2 week trip, back to the UK so no importing taking place.

I've heard a few rumours on FB about race-bikes needing them.

Thanks,

Ed

__________________
Where Next Barney? Buenos Aires to Lima 2015 | London to Sydney 2015/6 | Armenia, Georgia & the FYR 2022 | Algerian Sahara 2023.

Good question! I have been trying (fruitlessly)to get an answer to this for 2 weeks. Unregistered race bikes/cars are currently subject to a carnet system according to the ACU (see below) but I haven't found anything for vehicles with registration documents. You would like to think if there's a V5 registration document, and insurance and mot, there should be no problem, but given the vindictive pettyness of the customs inspectors (I mean: confiscating ham sandwiches? Playground stuff) nothing sensible can be expected :-(

Thanks - it could be that it's just required for race bikes that are un-registered because they could theoretically by registered for the first time. With no pre-existing registration the bike is in effect a blank canvas that can't be traced, but a carnet provides way of managing that.

In contrast, previously registered bikes are at least accountable in some shape or form, though I don't know to what extent a UK-reg provides that accountability to EU countries post-BREXIT.

I guess we'll just have to see when things open up again - I suspect the lack of x-Channel traffic means its difficult to confirm for sure!

Fingers crossed for some kind of trip with the van and a bike in the back this summer....!

Ed

__________________
Where Next Barney? Buenos Aires to Lima 2015 | London to Sydney 2015/6 | Armenia, Georgia & the FYR 2022 | Algerian Sahara 2023.

Hi Ed:

I suspect that the requirement that unregistered race bikes and cars need a carnet arises because those unregistered machines are not considered "vehicles".

In other words, once an automobile or motorcycle gets registered and plated the first time, it's kind of like it has been baptized - now it is a "vehicle", rather than just a piece of machinery, and there is a well-established protocol for permitting vehicles to cross borders without need for a carnet.

I'm going to guess that if you tried to take a perfectly normal new automobile or new (non-race) bike that had never been registered across borders, it might also be subject to the requirement to have a carnet.

As for transporting registered (plated) bikes from the UK into Europe in the back of a van, I doubt very much if a carnet will ever be needed. I can transport my Canadian-plated motorcycle into any European country in the back or belly of an aircraft - something I have done quite a few times - and I don't need a carnet to do that.

Michael

Ever flown into Australia or New Zealand? Or remember this?

More importantly: its VIN number has been recorded in a database that is part of international cooperation agreements, and can be traced back if stolen or re-registered. Race bikes may not even have VINs!

Almost certainly not a carnet, but possibly some form of TIP or other authorization paperwork.

Note that when you transport your Canadian-plated vehicle by aircraft, the vehicle gets placed in a customs warehouse at the other end. And to drive it out, you - the owner - must show up, with your passport and your ownership documents, and sign papers whereby you basically promise to take the vehicle out of this customs area within 12 months, and not sell it on while you're here.

So yeah, transport by commercial hauler to a customs warehouse and then pickup by the owner = minimal paperwork. Transport of other people's vehicles in the back of a van... *potentially* more paperwork.

Real-life example: leased vehicles entering Russia. I live in an EU country with a land border with Russia, and this is definitely A Thing. When you privately lease a vehicle, the bank owns it - you (and maybe a couple of your family members) are simply an Authorized User written into the registration certificate.

This is fine for driving the vehicle all across the EU/EEA and most "friendly" countries, but at some point Russia decided that it would treat any border crossing by a non-owner (even an authorized user) as a potential attempt to import the vehicle, and require a full customs bond from the bank that owns the vehicle. Which a bank - technically owning thousands of vehicles - of course wouldn't do.

So yes, there was a legitimate problem where you could not cross into Russia in a leased private vehicle without loads of paperwork and putting up loads of money. It CAN happen, and the UK is now a third country, as much as Russia.

"This is fine for driving the vehicle all across the EU/EEA and most "friendly" countries, but at some point Russia decided that it would treat any border crossing by a non-owner (even an authorized user) as a potential attempt to import the vehicle, and require a full customs bond from the bank that owns the vehicle. Which a bank - technically owning thousands of vehicles - of course wouldn't do."
So yes, there was a legitimate problem where you could not cross into Russia in a leased private vehicle without loads of paperwork and putting up loads of money. It CAN happen, and the UK is now a third country, as much as Russia.



This is exactly what I want some clarity on, and even the professional motorcycle movers don't appear to know yet where they stand.
I want to van my bike, and those of some mates who are more time-poor than me, to Spain or Portugal, meet them off the plane and ride, but I can't even find out what to expect when getting off the ferry.

The only change for UK to EU is that you need a physical green card. Insurers are offering them for free, had one for work related stuff in the RoI and NL/Germany since Jan 1st. Health cover is also worth checking.

Taking a personal vehicle on holiday is not taking advertising material to an event, so no point comparing.

There is another potential positive (to go with our vaccine roll out). If they can issue a green card to go to Spain, will some enterprising insurer offer Morocco?

Andy

I posted about this in the transport section. Today I had spoke to the GBCC, who issue the ACU carnet’s, and CARS Europe, the UK Carnet issuer.

The results were not conclusive. According to GBCC, carnets are not required for road registered vehicles with a V5, and one vehicle can transport another vehicle - like a motorcaravan towing a car as long as it’s not a commercial operation

Confusion may arise with either more than one vehicle being towed, or taking a few mates bikes in the back of a van. According to GBCC nothing wrong or illegal in this, however, CARS told me anecdotally that a car that was towing a 2 vehicle trailer was asked for a 40% deposit on entry into Spain, and that taking 4-5 bikes may mean customs deem you to be a business and ask for freight and shipping paperwork.

And as it’s a unified approach across Europe , apparently Spain are being difficult, Netherlands will wave you through and France it depends on the customs officer on the day.

Bit of an arse if you’ve just got off the ferry in Santander and customs ask you for the 40% deposit though, even if they’re not supposed to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CDP, mate, not green card.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The history of European relations summed up in 20 words. Made me smile. Thank You.

Andy

The only change is that you need a physical green card.

You did not need a CdP before. This has not changed. You do not need a CdP now.

Andy

See above! Things potentially change now if you have some bikes in the back of a van, that don’t belong to you and customs decide you need shipping documents - not a CDP, granted, but you’d still be stuck at the border or stumping up a deposit.

I’m sure it will all settle down by the time we can travel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Taking a personal vehicle across the border by yourself is not the same as taking a vehicle (or several) that you do not own across the border.

Correct.

Taking anything you do not own in any significant quantity will he viewed as likely commercial activity. You need export and import declarations with value, details of the owners, commodity code etc. This can be temporary for things like tools and a deposit/bond might be requested against VAT due if the import ends up permanent . Doesn't matter if it's a mates bike or a lorry load of fish. An import broker would get through a trailer of bikes for France in two minutes. When we sent pumps to Iran it took them a little longer!

CdP is for a vehicle to be driven on the road across the border.

What's amazing me most is that this is coming as a shock to anyone. The only way this could have been avoided was to remain in the customs union which was taken off the table directly after the referendum. The stupidly late announcement in December was only on tariffs and waiver agreements. They could have limited personal vehicles and required a CdP but did not. They could have charged 10% of a value of the lorry load of fish but they did not. The amusements of uniformed bullies encouraged or not by their political masters is just what happens, it'll calm down if they want a tourist industry . Be glad they don't yet have mirrored sunglasses and assault rifles.

Andy