Dear competence team,

I was wondering, in what sort of document trouble I would run into, if I had to decide to swap the engine of my 4x4 while abroad on a Carnet de Passage

a) for the same type of engine
b) for a different, non-originally-built-for-that-car - engine
(does it matter?)

As the Carnet contains the engine number - and it seems, it´s usually checked by customs - I´d like to know

- how to change the carnet´s engine number to the new one officially. Is this done by local customs or by the issuer/owner of the carnet? Do I need "beyond repair/stolen"-documents, like those I´d need to dump a whole car on a carnet?

- how to get away with slamming the old number into the new engine?*

I´m fine with my 2.5Dn/a in the ´71 LR, but could think about (just in case of sudden death) swapping for a 200tdi or others, while in countries, where there are parts source able, is still a vibrant market for conversion kits and workshops are sort of used to do such conversions on low bucks/hour.

Kind regards

J

*surely belongs to the "shitty behavior abroad"-thread next door but must be considered...

Interesting, my engine number is stamped on the block underneath the exhaust manifold behind the starter motor, I can just about see most of it by poking a camera into the gap and taking a photo. Is that what they would do in customs? Or would they just read a VIN plate stuck, which is engraved plastic glued onto the side of the engine bay?

Well, I´d say, it depends… on the ambition of the customs staff. Some seem to take it very serious. AFAIK. Never went on a carnet. My VIN is stamped on the chassis and the engine no. is stamped next to the valve cover. Both in easy reach.

thats a tough one. I suppose you'd have to produce proof of legal purchase of the engine (MSO-manuf statement of orgin) at the border(s) and when you get back to the country that issued you the vehicle registration go through the import process for the motor and then have the paperwork changed? better question for local lawyers and registration officials.

If you create something with paperwork problems you might run the risk of getting impounded (along with other legal problems) or not being able to sell it down the road.

Whatever the right thing to do is, you need to do it because some customs choose to apply the letter of the law at the worst possible time.

From Overland Sphere facebook - Anne Merz-Montet

A "lot of money" being US$5000

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

yep, I´d like to avoid to let my CdP expire or become invalid - by any reasons. That´s why I´m here for. Your quote of the french case above seems to be a different case, as they were not swapping engine and they might could have known - after one year on the first CdP - that an expiring CdP has to be announced to the local customs.

Anyway. I´m remembering a thread - here or elsewhere - where years ago a brand new EU-4x4 broke down after being shipped to South Africa and got a new engine on warranty built in in Jo´burg. CdP was changed somehow. But don´t know how. Unfortunately, I cannot find this thread anymore. Will have to ask the issuing ADAC, when I´ll get my CdP.

Thanxalot
J

Logically it is more serious than that. The carnet is to prevent illegal imports of vehicles. If you bring an engine into the country and don't take it out again, then it has been imported. Aren't you liable to lose the carnet deposit?

Don't know. I was guessing. You make a good point about the old engine staying behind. Makes me wonder what your supposed to do when your engine blows up abroad. Is shipping it back "as is" the only legal option?

Im glad the question came up ... so as to think it out beforehand.

In South America, on my moto, if it really just had to have a new engine, I think Id likely try to hire a local truck to take me and the bike to the border and push it across ... one border at a time.

In the old days, when you bought a new engine case from Harley, the dealers all had punches to stamp your engine number on the new case . . .

There must be a way to get the old engine declared destroyed. e.g. in Morocco you can fly home and leave you vehicle if you get some paperwork done officially.

Thanx for your input, guys.

For the "old" engine:
- proof of "beyond repair" (how?)= no value = no import tax,
- if customs declare the dead engine of some value, the import tax would be for that value, I guess
- where import tax is higher than reasonable, the old engine could be shipped out without taxation (´cause went in non-taxed on the CdP)?

For the "new" engine:
- CdP needs update with new engine number. Do I have to send the CdP back home to the issuing ADAC, they change the engine number in the CdP and send the changed CdP back to me? Or who does this document change?

With a properly changed CdP, may I get the VAT for the new engine refunded, when leaving the country?

Never have seen a CdP live. Are the different sheets for each country fixed/attached to the part of the document, where the engine no. is written on? Or are they on different documents with the same serial no.?

The documents of my car do not contain the engine number, only the capacity & power. When the engine no. in the CdP is properly changed, I would not need to declare the new engine to home customs, only to the MOT (TÜV in Germany) to make it road legal when coming back.

Cheers
J

"beyond repair" - a repair shop and someone from customs OR the local police have to agree on it. Same when vehicle is totalled or stolen - the police talk to customs to clear you and customs does whatever they want regarding fees etc.


Yes, send it back and get it updated / changed. Preferably do it when you're in a country that dos not use the carnet to keep life simple!


Theoretically, but you'll need a proper VAT receipt etc in an African country, so in reality; good luck...


One page per country. Number is on the cover AND on each sheet.



For more info, see Carnet links | Horizons Unlimited

Also see Paperwork | Horizons Unlimited

and there is a pdf of a complete carnet there to peruse!

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Thank you very much Grant!
My single concern may be by now, do put such an important document as the CdP into an envelope to send it around the world…
Kind regards.

Basic shipping tip - MAKE SURE that the shipper (Fedex, UPS, DHL etc) is the SAME end-to-end. In other words, you send by the same company that will deliver it at the other end - and vice versa especially. If sent by DHL from UK for instance, and you're in Rio Gallegos, there is - at last check - no DHL office there, so it gets handed to a local company in BA - and they don't go all the way to Rio Gallegos, so they hand it to someone else along the way. I think you get the idea how bad that can be...

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Might not be of any help but reminds me of a story back in the 80's. i had to do an engine swap on a Bedford truck with a rod through the block, stuck in southern India.
I had just finished a trip from London and was in Kathmandu Nepal, anyway i had to fly to Bombay to collect the engine and get it down south to where the truck was stranded. this was another story on it's own.
Back to the Carnet question : The engine came into the country on it's own Carnet.
After a few days in 40 plus degree Indian summer i had the engine installed......casualties = 3 lost fingers and a crushed hand that belonged to one of my local Indian helpers, when this happened all my other helpers ran away!! at least i now had the cab back on. Eventually got on the road as i had to relocate the truck and trailer back to Nepal.
As the replacement engine was on a Carnet i had to load the old engine and take it out of India. I remember at the India Nepal border they did inspect both engines and stamped both the truck/trailer/old engine and new engine out of the country. Entering Nepal the Truck/trailer and old engine was stamped in and then they also stamped the new engine carnet into the country.
I am not sure what happened to the old engine but i believe it was custom cleared in Nepal and a new carnet was issued for the truck with the new engine, this was all done back in London.
By this time i flown back to London and was already on the road heading back to Nepal....this time via the USSR..........What a great time that was.
Kevin