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fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one? fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one?
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Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
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  #1  
Old 7 Jan 2014
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fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one?
Let me start off by saying I would never do this and would and ever promote anyone doing this,

Looking at the costs of a real carnet in the UK via the rip off merchants that are the RAC, woulnt it be easier and cheaper just to fake a carnet?

Put it this way, at 800% for just an Egypt carnet i would loose less money if I was cought out and them taking my vehicle than actually getting a real carnet in the 1st place.

Very basic calculation of Egypt at 800%

£1000 (minimum) vehicle value = £8000 carnet
50% back on returning = total cost of £4000

If I got cought and lost my £1000 vehicle im still up £3000, and even if they fine me there own massive import duty of 240%, im still saving £600

When I received my last one years ago I got back 95% of the cost which was fine. I also remember the documents looking so basic. I'm a graphic designer and I recon I could make a full document in a matter of hours.

Or,a bit more legal....ish, just privately import your vehicle into each country and it will still be cheaper than a carnet.

Its only a silly idea and i have probaby got it wrong anyway, but it did cross my mind
Last edited by will-dakar; 7 Jan 2014 at 20:21.
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Old 7 Jan 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will-dakar View Post
Very basic calculation of Egypt at 800%

£1000 (minimum) vehicle value = £8000 carnet
50% back on returning = total cost of £4000
I´m not sure if those numbers are adding up.

I don´t know about RAC, but I had a carnet issued by the Finnish automobile association 6 years ago.It cost me about 250 euros, and then I also had to put up a deposit of 5000 euros (the bike´s value was maybe 8000 euros at the time, and my carnet was valid for Iran, Pakistan, India & Indonesia, and possibly other countries but cannot remember ). After I had finished the trip, and kept my carnet ´clean´ (= had all entry & exit stamps from all carnet countries) and the bike had returned home, I got the whole deposit back.
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  #3  
Old 7 Jan 2014
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Need someone from UK to verify your costs. I've checked on getting mine for my German bike from the ADAC, I will have to pay for the carnet and leave a deposit which is returned in full

sent from my thingy, using whatchamacallit
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  #4  
Old 7 Jan 2014
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If you're caught with a fake carnet, in addition to losing your bike, you might also get free board and lodge in a jail for a little (or long?) while. Or you might not.

Might be worth looking up carnet requiring countries' attitudes to attempting to defraud the State.
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Old 7 Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by pecha72 View Post
I´m not sure if those numbers are adding up.

I don´t know about RAC, but I had a carnet issued by the Finnish automobile association 6 years ago.It cost me about 250 euros, and then I also had to put up a deposit of 5000 euros
It varies with the issuing club. The French Automobile Club did not make any loadings for Iran or Egypt on my carnet
I valued the bike at €1000 . Cost me about €300 for the carnet. Deposited €3k with the auto club which was returned to me.

You are being stiffed because its RAC Limited not the Royal Automobile Club. Its a business.
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Old 8 Jan 2014
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Here is a link to another thread from HU about the UK costs,
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-rip-off-54541

If I get my Finnish girlfriend to apply from over there and have a Finnish vehicle then yes it soul cost next to nothing and worth it. Unfortunately here in the UK these are some of our prices,
Egypt = 800%
Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabi and most others = 500%
Its such an annoying scam by the RAC. If we in UK apply straight to ADAC then we are told we have to do it via the RAC
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Old 8 Jan 2014
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Hi,
Doing it properly through the RAC last year i didn't have anything like the 8000 quid needed for a deposit (1000 pound vehicle with Egypt on the carnet) so used the insurance policy option.
Paid about 1600 quid upfront and got about 700 back at the end.
It's still a chunk of money, but nowhere near the 4000 mentioned earlier.

Happy travels
Sam
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Old 8 Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by will-dakar View Post
If I get my Finnish girlfriend to apply from over there and have a Finnish vehicle then yes it soul cost next to nothing and worth it.
Unfortunately the Finnish AA has not issued carnets for about 3-4 years now. Everyone here must apply from Motormannen (Swedish AA). I have zero info about them.

But if I were you, I´d still try to ask nicely, if there is any chance to get the German ADAC to help you out.
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Old 8 Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by Niva Say Never View Post
Hi,
Doing it properly through the RAC last year i didn't have anything like the 8000 quid needed for a deposit (1000 pound vehicle with Egypt on the carnet) so used the insurance policy option.
Paid about 1600 quid upfront and got about 700 back at the end.
It's still a chunk of money, but nowhere near the 4000 mentioned earlier.

Happy travels
Sam
Yeah that's what I did before but the RAC have put a stop to the insurace indemnity option so know you have to pay up in full.
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Old 9 Jan 2014
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BTW, I would think very carefully about faking official documents, and first find out, how comfortable the local jails are, because if you do get caught, there is a high possibility that you end up doing some time in them. I'm sure some have fantastic experiences faking stuff, but I'd still advice to remember that if you decide to go that route. Just my 0.02.
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  #11  
Old 9 Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by will-dakar View Post
Yeah that's what I did before but the RAC have put a stop to the insurace indemnity option so know you have to pay up in full.
From the RAC site ...

Previously the RAC offered three ways of securing this risk – insurance indemnity, full cash deposit and bank guarantee.

Following a business review at the beginning of 2013 a decision was made to only offer insurance indemnity as security for CPDs due to the risk factors of the other options.

The bank guarantee was withdrawn because of low take-up, administration difficulties and legal requirements which vary from bank to bank. As, on average, only 4% of CPDs issued each year were secured by a bank guarantee, the RAC felt it was no longer economical to offer this as a security option.
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Old 9 Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by trackdayrider View Post
From the RAC site ...


Following a business review at the beginning of 2013 a decision was made to only offer insurance indemnity as security for CPDs due to the risk factors of the other options.

The bank guarantee was withdrawn because of low take-up, administration difficulties and legal requirements which vary from bank to bank. As, on average, only 4% of CPDs issued each year were secured by a bank guarantee, the RAC felt it was no longer economical to offer this as a security option.
Yep, but its only UK that have done this and as RAC don't run the carnet's so they should not be allowed to do this.
They stopped it because 'apparently' over 75% of all the vehicles isued with carnets have never returned, I.e people from middle east buying them here and taking them back to there own countries to sell illegally. I can imagine a few but surely not over 75%.
If they were that worried they should just put a clause in the carnet saying if your not originaly from the country or have only been here for 10 years or less then you should not be issued with carnets. God i sound racest
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Old 9 Jan 2014
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Pic taken by me in 1999 of Cairo, Egypt customs yard of imported cars whose papers (Fake carnets?) weren't in order. Probably still there...



I wonder if Shukri the bloke who does (brass) rubbings of the chassis numbers is still working there?
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Old 9 Jan 2014
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I don't think it works like that 800% £8000 carnet mate. My bike was valued at £2200.. carnet cost £1700 (August 2013 with 500% for a few countries) with insurance indemnity, will get £900 back once I return the vehicle. I hope it doesn't cost as much to renew as I will need to in August, as I want to keep the bike in Oz for a bit. Also with bank deposit option, for me it would be daft to tie up that much money... (if my bike was worth quite a bit more)
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Old 9 Jan 2014
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I actually made money with the Carnet.
Paid $15k in USD exchanged to CAD. Two years later due to change exchange rate got $16.5k back.
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