yip, but it takes the fun out of arriving at the Jerez GP on my bike and I would really like to ride the bike back to the UK through France, plus I don't own a van, damn

We need to get things in perspective a bit. Putting all the legislation to one side:

Firstly, the tax (RFL). The DVLA will not in reality give a hoot if it is paid in arrears provided it is actually paid. Having recently retired from plod I had some time out with the DVLA clamping/towing unit looking for untaxed motors and if we found one. They contacted the DVLA at Swansea direct to ask for a decision to tow away or not. I was surprised how few were actually removed despite the tax being out of date. The DVLA only allowed the real piss takers to be towed.

The MOT has been addressed in the above posts but it is no big deal really. Provided you put some effort into the booking it is not a problem and in all honesty if you get stopped having just come from an obvious overseas trip, most coppers will see sense and send you on your way. Just be nice to his face - it can work wonders.

The insurance is a problem and that does not really need to be spoken of. If you do not have it in the UK you deserve what you get. As for the MOT being a condition of insurance, that is rubbish. If you store a bike in your shed for years with a SORN for example, it's unlikely to have an MOT but will still likely be insured. You do not want an uninsured bike nicked from your shed, do you ? They do often have a clause in the the policy that the vehicle must be maintained, which is not the same thing. The MOT however can be used as some proof of the roadworthiness.

The Cameras. Firstly, most fixed ANPR cameras are owned and maintained by the council and look at the front of the vehicle. There is a good reason for this. Their primary use (at present) is for crime prevention and detection. This does not include tax and insurance. They can be programmed to find vehicles for crime reasons but there needs to be a good reason for this - again, not tax and insurance. There is no benefit to the council to pay for a mechanism that the DVLA benefit from.
The only ones, AFAIK, that are live for DVLA purposes are the police and DVLA ones. I cannot comment on the SPECS, average speed ones, although most appear to be forward facing. The 'Cat and Fiddle' area being a noteable exception.

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New bike, Retired Nomad.

Okie so discussions still to and fro, and I am still confused as to what to do...

I am pretty sure lots of people left the UK for more than one year to travel several countries and then came back...... Calling on those who did.... How did you do it and how did it work out for you?

I know of people who have done this 3 times in the last 10 years. It is all you can do.....

1. Leave the EU, SORN online when near expiry of tax disc.

2. When coming back, buy your UK insurance before entering the EU, that also covers you in the EU. Do not tell them that you have the vehicle out of the UK. Using Skype to call, say you are on holiday, vehicle being worked on at a garage and now needs to be road tested if you are asked etc. Usually not.

Importent: Ask them to email you a copy of the insurance certificate so you can "check the details". Then you have a copy. Then make sure they are going to post the original cert to an address that you can visit on your first day back.

3. Buy a green card insurance if you can when coming back into the EU to cover your drive back to the UK.

4. Before getting on the ferry to the UK, book an MOT somewhere that you can do the test on the same day as you arrive, plus pick up you insurance cert, plus get to a post office to buy the registration.

So you may need a 4am ferry, Noon MOT test time etc. MAKE SURE THEY WRITE YOUR NAME AND CAR REGISTRATION DOWN IN THEIR APPOINTMENT BOOK and will verify your booking if the police ring to ask.

5 Then catch the ferry, drive to the MOT appointment, get your MOT cert, pick up insurance cert, go to post office, buy rego.

That is the best effort you can do with the current system. You could have a very strong case if taken to court etc. You really made the best effort possible.

Technically, if you SORN and bring the vehicle back into the UK you cannot drive it from the ferry to the MOT. Hopefully you can. Else you need a van/truck at the ferry port and you can take your time to do all of the above.

What happens if you fail the MOT??

Making a MOT appointment for when you arrive in the UK is the least of your worries as surely it'll work. It's riding through Spain or France coming from Africa with a UK reg bike with no MOT or tax disc!! Cause during ones travels in Africa the MOT and tax expired and now you need to return. What now?

There seems to be no alternative but to ride the bike through Spain and hope for the best when and if you get to Santander for instance, the other is to tow it I guess. Not even the Spanish ITV equivalent to a MOT seems to be the answer

As Old Git Ray says in his post, putting aside the letter of the law and the symantics of how the bits and pieces inter-relate, the main thing to have is a piece of paper that says you have current insurance cover.
i.e. basic, minimum level 3rd party insurance.

On arrival in the UK, pay for the RFL asap - say you arrive a few days into a month, then you will pay from the start of that month anyway (the oft quoted "favour and grace" of being allowed up to, say, 15 days to pay in arrears).
As for riding on the continent, yes you are taking a chance on coming across an official who knows a bit about the UK regulations and who gives a damn in any case. Some amount of adrenalin generated should enhance your levels of concentration and avoid all hazards and potential accidents!!

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Dave

Some UK insurers seem to insist on an MOT in their terms, some just state roadworthy, other than that I don't think any police outside the UK will be interested in an MOT certificate. The road fund/tax disc is widely considered to only be relevant in the UK, no-one outside that will be fussed.

In the future maybe further integration between Euro DVLA types will make things harder but not yet IMHO, and Mr roamingyak.org is correct. Booking an MOT at a garage that can repair too might be a good idea? But certainly you can only drive to a pre-booked MOT on the day itself.

You can't tow something that isn't road legal as far as I know, and Spain for instance bans towing anything unless its on a trailer or you are a recovery firm.

thanks, i feel so much better now

Thanks! That sounds the most logical thing to do. I know for a fact that you are allowed un-MOTd to the MOT appointment.... Now just to find an insurance that doesn't specify the MOT

don't think you'll find one but if you do, please share it with us

my bikesure/adrian flux/markerstudy policy has no mention of MOT or similar.

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https://fernsforays.wordpress.com/

i have posted the outcome in the green card insurance thread instead of doing it here, regarding MOT/ITV in spain in case somebody needs to know.

It's confirmed, as a new spanish connection of mine made the call today, Ceuta ITV had no clue about doing uk reg bikes but algeciras ITV and malaga said yes they have done it before, but, it's not official and that it does help in most cases when showed to the spanish police.

booking made

anyone that might need to make the call in future:

algeciras ITV +34 956673850
malaga ITV +34 902575757
ceuta ITV +34 956507374

Greetings to all. Newbie here. I hope it is OK to contribute to this topic.

My wife and I are planning a "retirement grand tour" of the USA, Canada and Central America in a Land Rover 110 and I have read all through this topic. After searching on-line I found the relevant legislation relating to VED and SORN:

The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 states "A duty of excise (Vehicle Excise Duty) shall be charged in respect of every mechanically propelled vehicle that …. is used, or kept, on a public road in the United Kingdom". Therefore it is clear that a vehicle that is in Honduras, is not being "used, or kept, on a public road in the United Kingdom" and no UK VED should be payable.

The Road Vehicles (Statutory Off-Road Notification) Regulations 1997 give the following definition of a vehicle to which the act applies "vehicle means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is-

(a) Registered in the records kept under the 1994 Act by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State; and

(b) Kept in Great Britain."

My interpretation of this is that, a vehicle that is in Peru, cannot, by definition, be "kept in GB". Therefore a vehicle that is on an extended trip overseas cannot be deemed a "vehicle" under the terms of the act and so the act does not apply. Therefore, there is no requirement to SORN the vehicle whilst it is out of the country, as it not a "vehicle" to which the SORN legislation applies.

I would be interested in the comments of others before I put this in a letter to the DVLA.

Regards,
Terry

You are stepping into a minefield here as most of the previous posts will tell you.

Unless the rules have recently changed then as far as DVLA are concerned they will NOT sway from their line ..
If the UK registered vehicle is to be taken out of the UK for less than 12 months then as long as it is MOT'd, Taxed and Insured there is no problem.
If the UK registered vehicle is taken out of the UK for a period longer than 12 months then the vehicle MUST be permanently exported, end of discussion!!

I had this issue with them when I set off on my 3 and half year trip back in 2009 ... At this time there were a couple of guys from here on the HUBB in communications with a David Evans from the DVLA to try and come up with a solution - they came up with the idea to write a letter to DVLA explainig what you were doing with the vehicle, how long you intended to stay out of the UK and have this letter placed on the vehicles file. 12 months into our trip I started to receive letters from the DVLA and from a recovery agency for back tax and fines for not paying the VED. Checking back on the thread I saw that David Evans had re-negged on what he had said previously s the letter I sent to them proved worthless.
Luckily/Unluckily for me, at this time I had to return to the UK for a month or two to sort out other issues. My bike was left in Argentina, less than 3 years old so no MOT required, I paid the fines and back tax, got 6 months tax and Insurance for it then after the six months I SORNED it online for the rest of the trip.

I would suggest that you DO NOT tell DVLA anything. It is impossible for the long term traveller to stay legal - you cannot permanently export the vehicle, unless you have an address and the willingnes/time to do it for each country you are visiting, not feasible methinks - You cannot legally SORN the vehicle as it must be kept off road within the UK.

However you decide to proceed I hope it works out for you and have a great trip
Kev

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RTW Jan 2009 - Aug 2012. Currently in Europe waiting for the next ride
www.takingthelongwayhome.co.uk

Panhandle has summarised things extremely well, based on first hand experience.
"Tell them nothing" is the best way of dealing with this anomaly in the rules, unless you like engaging in an argument for the sake of having one. Fortunately, the work around lies with the increasing use of online documentation.

It may not be an anomaly in any case: "kept in Great Britain" could be interpreted (by the courts for example) to mean that we each buy the right for the vehicle to carry a UK registration plate. This would be why the V5c confers the status of "registered keeper" rather than "ownership" of each vehicle.
On this basis, your interpretation means nothing; it is simply one more opinion, but the courts would decide if this issue were ever to go that far.
Just saying and it's a good first post!!

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Dave