Oh I'm sure they are after those ex-pats who think they can get away with not re-registering, my point was more that if say you're on your way back through Europe and you don't have a current tax-disc on display, they might impound first and ask questions later. There's enough illegally used British cars here for them to all be aware what a UK tax disc should look like.

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Forgive me - how does that work?
Illegally used cars would presumably not have a current or out of date tax disc showing, and more likely not one at all, so how do they know from this source what it should look like? They are used to looking at nothing!

Back to my original point. UK Road Tax is a UK tax, for UK registered vehicles only (ignoring commercials), being used on UK public roads only. If it is not on UK public roads it is not due. But you should SORN it as not being used or kept on UK public roads.

The Geneva Convention (GC) is about recriprocal rights for visitors temporary use of public roads elsewhere than in their own country, without the need for payment of local Customs and Import Taxes of the Country being visited, or have local registration. Customs Import Taxes, Sales Tax, etc, if any, would have been paid in the country of origin, prior to it granting the registration.

The GC is not about an internal tax for internally registered vehicles for using or not using public roads in their own country. But for use in other countries it does require the vehicle to be technically valid (ie in terms of design, specification, construction and mechanical maintenance) in the country of Registration. Even to the point of not having to comply with local laws of the country being visited, if their rules are in conflict.

It also stastes the white GB, F, AUS etc discs be displayed - not the little blue squares on number plates - they are not valid under the GC. So much for Blair/Browns regard for internationally accepted rules when it suits them cow-towing to the EU seeking their place in history!

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Alex
I posted before reading yours.
Well done. A most useful document to have. Are they backing it up with a hard copy? That is one of the points I have been banging on about for years.

Not only does it show they cannot make up thier minds and keep changing their view, but it also throws some light on what has been a potential can of worms- Permanant Export.

Someone at DVLA did once verbally insist Road Tax was payable if using public roads abroad but could not cite the actual legislation empowering this.When asked a few weeks later they could not give an answer!

Permanant Export. Their website and V5 (V5C) says if taking the vehicle out of the UK for more than 12 months it is regarded as Permanant Export. As has been gone through many times previously on HUBB, this would effectivly nullify the Registration and make longer journeys illegal under the GC. The general advice on HUBB had been to ignore this, dont put your head above the parapet by asking, and just go and keep SORNing online.

As someone once posted (and I have oft repeated) never, NEVER, NEVER tell DVLA anything. Now that might be changed!

This Email (and hopefully a legal hard copy) is most useful.
Thanks.

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Hard Copy??? HAHAHA!! But I suppose one could write to them, do they still accept letters?

It's one of the reasons why it would be worth other people asking the same question, just to check that there's no conflicting answers from different client advisers (or whatever they're called these days).

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Hi all

I have watching this thread with interest.. you can imagine that I am often asked this question in relation to carnet issue & extended overseas travel. What do I do about road tax/ MOT ??

I called DVLA Vehicle Policy Unit some years ago & got the standard response that yes, Continuous Registration applies. But if exporting the vehicle for more than 12 months, the V5 should be surrendered & a Certificate of Export is issued to assist with registration in the country of destination. Standard wording on V5 & elsewhere. Of course, irrelevant because you are not taking up residency in another country, purely visiting !

It was implied to me that an official SORN declaration would be an option but DVLA would not put this in writing.... understandably.

It is therefore gratifying that DVLA do finally seem to recognise the overlanding community by suggesting you write to Customer Services outlining your plans & a letter will be put on file.

Thanks to Tony P for constant hammering & especially to Alexlebrit for taking the time to enquire & posting response onto this thread.

Agree... it would be interesting if others were to enquire to see if DVLA continue to sing from same hymm sheet !

Paul

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Paul Gowen
Senior Travel Administrator - RAC Carnets
RAC UK

In order to get a reply in writing (on DVLA letterhead) as opposed to a less legally binding Email, I intend to write a letter to them in next few days.

Hopefully they will still give the same answer as they gave Alex. However they are notorious for answering differently each time the same question is asked - depending on the differing levels of knowledge and helpfulness of the person being asked the question. Also, I always feel an answer very much depends on the question and how it is asked.

When I hear back I will post here a scan of the question and reply, that others can hopefully use. If it is positive, I will also make photocopies available via PM. I am afraid it probably will not be until February when I will see the reply, as I am away in RUS for all of January (planning for next years trips amongst other things!).

Yes, Cheers to Alex. He really has finally opened this up. Praise too to DVLA who appear to have, at last, grasped the nettle.

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Harleyrider did the same as me but posted it on the other thread. He got the SAME ANSWER interestingly from the same person (awkward question department?) so that's good to know. Even better would as you say to have this in writing, but it's good to have it confirmed.

Paul, I'm amazed the DVLA couldn't give you a decent answer given who you work for, you'd think they'd be keen on fostering good relations with the motoring associations. Perhaps you could try the written route too, surely they'd respond to something on RAC letter paper?

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Trouble is that the turkey at the DVLA is giving a British centric answer of the question asked - its not being untaxed back in the UK you have to worry about. Try asking him to produce a "perpetual registration" document (maybe a V5andabit) so that when you cross a border or just get stopped by a copper and are asked to produce the vehicle papers you have something that says your registration in the UK never expires. I can just imagine some out of the way border crossing guards pissing themselves with laughter with the "its got perpetual registration in the UK" excuse, but the date on the V5 expired 2 years ago. It only takes one savvy/corrupt border guard or policeman to destroy a great travel experience and relieve you of a lot of money to get your vehicle past his control point.

Try asking the DVLA what paperwork they will provide you with that complies with the Vienna Convention when your road tax/MOT expire whilst you are out of the country. Bet that answer will take a bit longer to come through and I suspect that it will be a backflip.

Dont forget that UK Police and Ministry of Transport inspectors have done big roundups and impoundments (such a word?) of foreign trucks in the UK over the last few years without current registration documents from their own countries - using the Vienna Convention as the legal basis for their actions.

In addition to road Tax and MOT issues you'll need to consider vehicle registration.

I spoke to the DVLA about an imminent motorbike trip through Mexico, Central and South America (April '09 for 12 months +) and they informed me that "if exporting the bike for less than 12 months it remains registered in UK but if over 12 months I send them section 11 of my V5 (Notification of Permanent Export)". I wanted to keep my V5 intact (to reduce questions at border crossings on my trip) so they were happy for me to send them a photocopy of my V5 with a letter, stating I'm taking the vehicle out of the UK for 12 months or more and I'll re-register it on my return. Send to "Exports Department, DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BD".

Haven't given returning the bike to UK much thought yet but if I decide not to risk it from UK port to home I'll get the thing transported all the way home in a van/trailer I guess.

Ollie

Greasy Sproket

Ollie, you don't need to though, both Harley Rider and myself have contacted the DVLA with very specific questions and both had the same reply, see post 16 on this thread.

All you need to do is write them a letter, no doubt a photocopy of your V5 would be handy to enclose, explaining you're off on a trip but not permanently exporting to any one country and your vehicle will remain registered in the UK, but you won't be liable for fines concerning tax-discs as you're not driving in the UK. You'll keep your full V5 for any stroppy border guards, and when you return you just go and MOT and tax it.

Nice and easy.

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FWIW, here's my 2 penn'oth

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...mot-road-32649

My understanding of EU law is that you should be able to get EU Green Card insurance anywhere in the EU, regardless of where the car is registered? I know there was some debate about this in my case (whether I could or couldn't buy it at the Russia/Latvia border with a UK-registered car) but I fronted up to the border and was sold it no problem.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ght=green+card

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I know this is not necessarily helpful, but I followed the instructions laid out, and sent a letter to the address given with all the relevant info.

I followed this up this week with a phone call to check it had been placed on file, and found there were no notes there, and no record of my letter!

I explained the situation and the woman was adamant that I should EXPORT the vehicle. She was a nice lady and listened to my argument, and said she would double check and ring back. She did and she says that they are 100% sure that this is the way to do it. When we return to the country we just have to contact them to re-inport it.

I didn't have enough knowedge or time to argue and hence we will do this. Not sure if we will pay a price at a later date....

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

That is utter nonsense! You are not 'permanently exporting' the vehicle, just using it away from this country for a while... filling in that paperwork is as bad (actually worse) than not filling it in at all?!

The UK government is hell-bent on gathering statistics and revenue, and paperwork shunting in a desperate attempt to keep the public sector employed...

Just because they don't have the correct tick box for the very few people who are able to travel away from the UK for an extended period, it all goes to sh!t - computer says no...

Personally I agree with what TonyP suggested in the first page - don't ask the DVLA anything! It's only going to cause you more hassle than you need...

xxx

Why can't they just make up a story (sorry their minds) and stick to it. It was all looking like there was an easy and quick way to do things in a fashion that satisfied the mindless ones and now this.

Because I've got too much time on my hands I've e-mailed the person who replied to me and Harley to see a) if he's still there and b) what's the story, morning glory.

We'll see what happens.

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as I said here on 13 December -
"Never NEVER NEVER ask the DVLA. The only people you get to speak to generally know nothing!"

I also said on the similar thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...mot-road-32649 on 1 February 2008 -
"My own conclusion and own actions, ...
....is that, if I take it away for extended periods, I would SORN it as not being on UK public roads, either on departure or when a current tax expires, and renew the SORN a year later.

If they want to get 'arsey' I would demand they prosecute me (forget their fixed penalty money raising opportunities) and I will argue in any Court that my actions were reasonable and fair."


It's back to that for me for the timebeing.

Thanks for trying Alex.

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