We had to break our trip and come back to UK for various reasons and were greeted with two fines for £80 apiece and recovery agents put on our case. One fine for the bike we are using for the trip and one for the mrs's bike left at home. After many phone calls to DVLA we realised we weren't going to have any joy, they have the line drawn and that is it as far as they are concerned. If you're out of UK for less than 12 months then your vehicle needs to be taxed, insured and a current MOT if applicable. Out of UK for more than 12 months then the vehicle has to be permanently exported, though to do this I believe that you need a permanent place of residence in another country ... duh, I'm travelling. There is no provision for people who are on extended trips outside of the UK so we are basically being forced by DVLA to commit an offence in one way or another.

__________________
RTW Jan 2009 - Aug 2012. Currently in Europe waiting for the next ride
www.takingthelongwayhome.co.uk

thank you, as i had read through the posts, i came to the conclusion travelling falls through the cracks,

all i can do is get some paperwork when i get to the EU and try and sort it out when i get back to the UK.

because I am married to a North African i do have a residence card here, and will be paying tax here, and i will be able to get residence status in France or italy so i guess i will comply with their regulations and see how it all works out in the end.

I think I would be right in saying for an EU car to be legal in Europe it has to be legal in the home country. For a UK car that means an MOT.

The French Control Technique is bi-annual and although may well be similar obviously isn't identical.

Do you think if you were pulled in the UK on UK number plates by the police for instance that a French bit of paper would be acceptable to them? They wouldn't know what it was, but they can check easily themselves if you have an MOT. Roadsides cameras can too, so you can be fined on your way home without actually seeing anyone.

If you did annually SORN it then you could I suppose stay touring in Europe for a few years. The only sticking point there is your insurance. Some may specifically insist on an MOT, some may just say it must be roadworthy. Then you would need to book an MOT for your day of return to the UK and un-sorn it, the DVLA telling me I can't do it while abroad, but can't do it on the road, so I can only do it in the ferry disembarkation area! Have they heard of the internet?!?!

I believe there is still no controle technique in France for bikes, so if stopped there is no interest in an MOT or CT certificate. There is also no road tax in France.
So a UK registered bike with no tax or MOT, an insurance company who states that they have no requirement for an MOT on the bike and it is SORNed is on a pretty safe bet in France...... I hope!
I book in for an MOT in Dover before leaving France when I go back to blighty and proceed directly to the Post office (on foot) for tax after the MOT. I am on the road in UK driving to a booked MOT at the closest point of arrival with no tax disc, what more can I do?

As it may have got buried in nearly 90 posts above, I repeat the situation as I have researched it (and it is not what DVLA try to tell you), –

Road Tax. Actually the Road Fund License, but the term Tax is expedient for this explanation. This is required only for UK Registered Vehicles using UK roads. The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c.22) PART III 29 says this is necessary if using a “Public Road” which PART V 62 defines as, “in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, a road which is repairable at the public expense”. In Scotland the definition is slightly different due to differing set-ups.
There is no definition of a ‘public road’ in France, Russia or the Moon.
Thus if a UK registered Vehicle is not used on a UK Public Road, Road Tax is not required. END OF MATTER!
DVLA will try to tell you, as do the DirectGov websites, you need tax while abroad - until you ask for the definitive legislation, and after having quoted the above Act to them they just mumble and quickly change the topic.

MOT. UK registered vehicles over a certain age (generally 3 years) requires an annual Certificate before it can be further used on the UK Public Roads. It is also needed to purchase Road Tax. There is an exemption in that it is permitted to use the Public Roads without a current MOT or Tax if taking the vehicle to and from a PRE-BOOKED MOT Inspection.. There is no requirement that it is booked at a Test Centre near your home, your point of entry or anywhere else – just as long as it is booked and you are reasonably on the route towards wherever you booked it for, from wherever you were. For example, returning to UK via the English Channel to the north of England – as long as the Test is booked before you get onto the roads at Dover and you are somewhere between the two (even stopping the night) you are within the Act.
With the proliferation of ANPR cameras (even now on most Police patrol cars in some areas) expect to be stopped – but if you have the details of the appointment, which they can have checked out later, you will be OK other than the bother of being suspected of being anything but a law abiding HUBBer!

Insurance. MOT is NOT generally a requirement of Insurers. Therefore not having an MOT will not mean you are uninsured. However they will look very dimly at a claim and seek to reject it, if it arose from an accident in some way due to the slightest mechanical deficiency that would have been apparent at a MOT inspection. They also ask to see the MOT following a claim, partly to try to find ways to ‘wriggle’ out of the claim and partly to confirm mileage (= value).

SORN. Here comes Catch 22! When the Road Tax of a UK registered vehicle expires (or is surrendered for refund) The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) regulations 2002 state it must be declared ‘Off road’ with SORN. The Regulations continue that the vehicle must still be in the UK to be eligible to be SORNed, although it will not of course be on a Public Road. The SORN must be renewed every year unless or until Road Tax is bought or the vehicle scrapped or permanently exported.

Abroad. As above the DVLA and DirectGov websites state they want you to pay them to use roads in other countries (even if there is no local road tax for the locals to pay!) but, as above, that is not supported by The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.
Under the Geneva Treaties, travellers in private vehicles are entitled to use them, for visits of up to 6 months each, in other country (which have similarly signed the Treaties) temporarily without payment of local Customs Import duties and without modification to make the vehicle comply with local Construction rules - provided the vehicle fully complies with its ‘home’ Construction and Use Regulations and local Customs Duties paid in the country of registration and the registration continues. Note: Customs Duties do not include the Road Tax/ Road Fund License.
The EU, at times considering itself to be a single power, tries to introduce its own version of ‘international’ laws, even if in conflict with the Geneva Treaties which its member states have agreed individually (for example, those blue bits on number plates – the Geneva Treaties still require white oval GB/F/D/B etc plates – even if going to the neighboring country. EU has no power to overrule parts or all of the Geneva Treaties, nor has any country that signed it, including the UK – in for all of it or nothing!)





So! What to do?

You get nothing helpful from DVLA. Their interest is in getting onto the next caller, gathering penalties to offset their own costs and generally to assist Government fund raising by saying you must pay Road Tax if abroad (incorrect under the The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994). You rarely get the same answer twice, on the phone or in writing, (see the Emails they sent to Alex & Harley above!) and never a solution. Paul Gowen of the RAC shares the frustration – and we have yet to hear of the compromise someone claimed he achieved.

The nearest to a legally perfect solution I have come up with was put to the test nearly a year and a half ago and seems to be working! A friend was taking her car out of the UK (and out of EU) for an extended period. She submitted Part 11 from page 3-4 of the V5C (all you need abroad is page 1-2) to DVLA with a covering letter stating the car was going to be abroad for an indeterminate period, travelling from country to country – never more than 6 months in each. She required the Registration to be kept current to comply with the Geneva Treaties, to which Britain had signed, and she would contact DVLA before returning to arrange an MOT (or Vehicle Inspecorate inspection of identity) and visit a local DVLA office. She never received a reply and went on her way.
A few months ago we reached the anniversary of her leaving UK. Being in UK at the time, I phoned the DVLA to enquire if they were expecting a SORN – their reply was “No, the vehicle is Exported [no mention of Permanently] and it should be re-registered at a local DVLA office, with a MOT certificate or Vehicle Inspectorate certificate immediately it returns to the UK”.


And no doubt someone else has been told you can’t do this…………!



As ever, I am open to correction.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

HI TonyP

I didn't miss you post, i had dutifully read EVERY post in this thread ~ and i have yours copied and pasted into word and printed off to follow it lol

as it is my sons friend who deals with our MoT's i will contact him beofre i get back to the UK and will book the truck in for MoT, i will also make sure i have my insurance with me, which i can do online, and in theory that should be ok, and i don't care if its not thats what I am going to do!

because i have residence status here in north africa, i have to pay road tax, italy and france will know what it is as this country is full of french and italian cars!

i will probably get some sort of garage inspection/equivilent to UK MoT? in france, for my own piece of mind, and it won't hurt i guess to show the police that will no doubt stop me, or the cameras, that I made sure the vehicle WAS raodworthy, AND it had a prebooked MoT for the UK, WAS insured, and dutifully taxed as soon as MoT completed, trusting it passes one lol

thats what i figure on doing based on what i read in your post, and that i had read somewhere about traveling to the MoT station.

there used to be something about it being the nearest one? shortest traelling distance from the registered address of the vehicle? that will do to get me home!!!!

and thanks to everyone for being so helpful to a non biker! (ex kept the bike!! kwak ZJII 1000)

Hi all
I am new to this site and I must admit I haven't read every single post in this thread. SO apologies if I repeat something.

But I had looked at it a few times before joining the HUBB and it seems that there is still no concrete solution as to how to leave the UK for more than 12 months "legally", without exporting the bike.

I myself am planing a round the world trip that will most likely take more than 12 months so the problem is looming.

So I just called the DVLA to see if they are aware of the problem, and yes they are. When I asked what they could do about it, they said that they are stuck and bound by the laws and regulations. So then they suggested that I contact my local MP in order that the subject be raised with the relevant people in govenment.

Might seem like it would get lost there "like a needle in the haystack" sort of thing. However, word has it that if enough people raise the same issue with their MP, eventually they have to listen.

So to all you UK people out there, email your MP (its really easy to do online, just google "find/email your local MP" and follow the links). We may not change the world instantly, but its worth a try

__________________
http://followingtarmac.com/

Thought i'd run this crazy idea past you all as you seem pretty clued.

So, if non resident in the UK (<365 days in last 2 years), or UK resident but leaving for more than 6 months, you can purchase a vehicle from a "registered" dealer (used or new) DUTY FREE. The bike is given (new) or keeps (used) it's number plate, and you got six months to get out the EC (europe).

as you leave you got to send a slip to the dvla with details of export date etc, then your bike is officially no longer UK "registered". You do however still have the purchase papers, a copy of whatever the DVLA give you in the first place (called a vx403 but no idea what it looks like) the number plates and hopefully a carnet if the RAC will give you one (????). What other papers do you really need?

this may be a shot in the dark but VAT on a new bike is a lot of spends!

Not sure what my plans are with my bike at the end, maybe register in another country (and by that point the value of the bike will have dropped ajorly so import duties should be smaller)

Any feedback?

PJ

Just a quick non-update -

-She still has her car in Russia.
-Nothing has been received at the UK address DVLA have for her.
-She plans to take the car back to UK within the next couple of months.

In the meantime I understand (separetly from LuckyLuke above) that DVLA finally admit to a gap in the legislation but refuse to suggest a way round it.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

Interestingly, this talles with what I was told by DVLA when I was planning my own 1/2 RTW trip. They said to declare the vehicle exported and then re-import/re-register it when I got back. I went the SORN route instead to save the hassle of going to a DVLA office in person and doing all the paperwork. I also wonder whether, technically, a vehicle is still registered in the UK if DVLA's records show it as exported.

overlandcruiser.net

__________________
www.overlandcruiser.wordpress.com