I believe there is still no controle technique in France for bikes, so if stopped there is no interest in an MOT or CT certificate. There is also no road tax in France.
So a UK registered bike with no tax or MOT, an insurance company who states that they have no requirement for an MOT on the bike and it is SORNed is on a pretty safe bet in France...... I hope!
I book in for an MOT in Dover before leaving France when I go back to blighty and proceed directly to the Post office (on foot) for tax after the MOT. I am on the road in UK driving to a booked MOT at the closest point of arrival with no tax disc, what more can I do?

As it may have got buried in nearly 90 posts above, I repeat the situation as I have researched it (and it is not what DVLA try to tell you), –

Road Tax. Actually the Road Fund License, but the term Tax is expedient for this explanation. This is required only for UK Registered Vehicles using UK roads. The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c.22) PART III 29 says this is necessary if using a “Public Road” which PART V 62 defines as, “in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, a road which is repairable at the public expense”. In Scotland the definition is slightly different due to differing set-ups.
There is no definition of a ‘public road’ in France, Russia or the Moon.
Thus if a UK registered Vehicle is not used on a UK Public Road, Road Tax is not required. END OF MATTER!
DVLA will try to tell you, as do the DirectGov websites, you need tax while abroad - until you ask for the definitive legislation, and after having quoted the above Act to them they just mumble and quickly change the topic.

MOT. UK registered vehicles over a certain age (generally 3 years) requires an annual Certificate before it can be further used on the UK Public Roads. It is also needed to purchase Road Tax. There is an exemption in that it is permitted to use the Public Roads without a current MOT or Tax if taking the vehicle to and from a PRE-BOOKED MOT Inspection.. There is no requirement that it is booked at a Test Centre near your home, your point of entry or anywhere else – just as long as it is booked and you are reasonably on the route towards wherever you booked it for, from wherever you were. For example, returning to UK via the English Channel to the north of England – as long as the Test is booked before you get onto the roads at Dover and you are somewhere between the two (even stopping the night) you are within the Act.
With the proliferation of ANPR cameras (even now on most Police patrol cars in some areas) expect to be stopped – but if you have the details of the appointment, which they can have checked out later, you will be OK other than the bother of being suspected of being anything but a law abiding HUBBer!

Insurance. MOT is NOT generally a requirement of Insurers. Therefore not having an MOT will not mean you are uninsured. However they will look very dimly at a claim and seek to reject it, if it arose from an accident in some way due to the slightest mechanical deficiency that would have been apparent at a MOT inspection. They also ask to see the MOT following a claim, partly to try to find ways to ‘wriggle’ out of the claim and partly to confirm mileage (= value).

SORN. Here comes Catch 22! When the Road Tax of a UK registered vehicle expires (or is surrendered for refund) The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) regulations 2002 state it must be declared ‘Off road’ with SORN. The Regulations continue that the vehicle must still be in the UK to be eligible to be SORNed, although it will not of course be on a Public Road. The SORN must be renewed every year unless or until Road Tax is bought or the vehicle scrapped or permanently exported.

Abroad. As above the DVLA and DirectGov websites state they want you to pay them to use roads in other countries (even if there is no local road tax for the locals to pay!) but, as above, that is not supported by The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.
Under the Geneva Treaties, travellers in private vehicles are entitled to use them, for visits of up to 6 months each, in other country (which have similarly signed the Treaties) temporarily without payment of local Customs Import duties and without modification to make the vehicle comply with local Construction rules - provided the vehicle fully complies with its ‘home’ Construction and Use Regulations and local Customs Duties paid in the country of registration and the registration continues. Note: Customs Duties do not include the Road Tax/ Road Fund License.
The EU, at times considering itself to be a single power, tries to introduce its own version of ‘international’ laws, even if in conflict with the Geneva Treaties which its member states have agreed individually (for example, those blue bits on number plates – the Geneva Treaties still require white oval GB/F/D/B etc plates – even if going to the neighboring country. EU has no power to overrule parts or all of the Geneva Treaties, nor has any country that signed it, including the UK – in for all of it or nothing!)





So! What to do?

You get nothing helpful from DVLA. Their interest is in getting onto the next caller, gathering penalties to offset their own costs and generally to assist Government fund raising by saying you must pay Road Tax if abroad (incorrect under the The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994). You rarely get the same answer twice, on the phone or in writing, (see the Emails they sent to Alex & Harley above!) and never a solution. Paul Gowen of the RAC shares the frustration – and we have yet to hear of the compromise someone claimed he achieved.

The nearest to a legally perfect solution I have come up with was put to the test nearly a year and a half ago and seems to be working! A friend was taking her car out of the UK (and out of EU) for an extended period. She submitted Part 11 from page 3-4 of the V5C (all you need abroad is page 1-2) to DVLA with a covering letter stating the car was going to be abroad for an indeterminate period, travelling from country to country – never more than 6 months in each. She required the Registration to be kept current to comply with the Geneva Treaties, to which Britain had signed, and she would contact DVLA before returning to arrange an MOT (or Vehicle Inspecorate inspection of identity) and visit a local DVLA office. She never received a reply and went on her way.
A few months ago we reached the anniversary of her leaving UK. Being in UK at the time, I phoned the DVLA to enquire if they were expecting a SORN – their reply was “No, the vehicle is Exported [no mention of Permanently] and it should be re-registered at a local DVLA office, with a MOT certificate or Vehicle Inspectorate certificate immediately it returns to the UK”.


And no doubt someone else has been told you can’t do this…………!



As ever, I am open to correction.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

HI TonyP

I didn't miss you post, i had dutifully read EVERY post in this thread ~ and i have yours copied and pasted into word and printed off to follow it lol

as it is my sons friend who deals with our MoT's i will contact him beofre i get back to the UK and will book the truck in for MoT, i will also make sure i have my insurance with me, which i can do online, and in theory that should be ok, and i don't care if its not thats what I am going to do!

because i have residence status here in north africa, i have to pay road tax, italy and france will know what it is as this country is full of french and italian cars!

i will probably get some sort of garage inspection/equivilent to UK MoT? in france, for my own piece of mind, and it won't hurt i guess to show the police that will no doubt stop me, or the cameras, that I made sure the vehicle WAS raodworthy, AND it had a prebooked MoT for the UK, WAS insured, and dutifully taxed as soon as MoT completed, trusting it passes one lol

thats what i figure on doing based on what i read in your post, and that i had read somewhere about traveling to the MoT station.

there used to be something about it being the nearest one? shortest traelling distance from the registered address of the vehicle? that will do to get me home!!!!

and thanks to everyone for being so helpful to a non biker! (ex kept the bike!! kwak ZJII 1000)

Hi all
I am new to this site and I must admit I haven't read every single post in this thread. SO apologies if I repeat something.

But I had looked at it a few times before joining the HUBB and it seems that there is still no concrete solution as to how to leave the UK for more than 12 months "legally", without exporting the bike.

I myself am planing a round the world trip that will most likely take more than 12 months so the problem is looming.

So I just called the DVLA to see if they are aware of the problem, and yes they are. When I asked what they could do about it, they said that they are stuck and bound by the laws and regulations. So then they suggested that I contact my local MP in order that the subject be raised with the relevant people in govenment.

Might seem like it would get lost there "like a needle in the haystack" sort of thing. However, word has it that if enough people raise the same issue with their MP, eventually they have to listen.

So to all you UK people out there, email your MP (its really easy to do online, just google "find/email your local MP" and follow the links). We may not change the world instantly, but its worth a try

__________________
http://followingtarmac.com/

Thought i'd run this crazy idea past you all as you seem pretty clued.

So, if non resident in the UK (<365 days in last 2 years), or UK resident but leaving for more than 6 months, you can purchase a vehicle from a "registered" dealer (used or new) DUTY FREE. The bike is given (new) or keeps (used) it's number plate, and you got six months to get out the EC (europe).

as you leave you got to send a slip to the dvla with details of export date etc, then your bike is officially no longer UK "registered". You do however still have the purchase papers, a copy of whatever the DVLA give you in the first place (called a vx403 but no idea what it looks like) the number plates and hopefully a carnet if the RAC will give you one (????). What other papers do you really need?

this may be a shot in the dark but VAT on a new bike is a lot of spends!

Not sure what my plans are with my bike at the end, maybe register in another country (and by that point the value of the bike will have dropped ajorly so import duties should be smaller)

Any feedback?

PJ

Just a quick non-update -

-She still has her car in Russia.
-Nothing has been received at the UK address DVLA have for her.
-She plans to take the car back to UK within the next couple of months.

In the meantime I understand (separetly from LuckyLuke above) that DVLA finally admit to a gap in the legislation but refuse to suggest a way round it.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

Interestingly, this talles with what I was told by DVLA when I was planning my own 1/2 RTW trip. They said to declare the vehicle exported and then re-import/re-register it when I got back. I went the SORN route instead to save the hassle of going to a DVLA office in person and doing all the paperwork. I also wonder whether, technically, a vehicle is still registered in the UK if DVLA's records show it as exported.

overlandcruiser.net

__________________
www.overlandcruiser.wordpress.com

I've read each post in this thread, I've dipped into it for the last 3 years to be honest in anticipation of a return to the UK.

I left the UK in May 2007 with my 4x4. I returned the tax disc for a refund once I left the EEA. Since that time the vehicle has been around Eurasia, out of the EEA. I've never registered the vehicle in another country, kept the car SORN'd in the UK.

So now, I have the joy of returning to the UK, compounded by the fact that 'my' government seems to deem my trip illegal.

Insurance-wise, it seems not to be possible to insure my car with a UK insurer as the car will be out of the UK at the start date of the policy. I have a green card purchased in Ukraine which covers all green-card member states (including the UK), except for Ukraine itself.

I'm going to book an MOT before disembarking in Dover Port, and I live just a couple of hours away.

My main worry is a run-in with the Orwellian surveillance organs of the regime. What are my best chances at escaping being recorded? I'll be driving at night, and avoiding motorways. Is this a wise move?? Any other tips? What are UK customs like? Are they likely to check car paperwork etc (the car still has UK plates). Or should I maybe use a 'local' set of plates (with my number, but in Pakistani format, used when driving through Afghanistan).

I really wish I was dealing with money-hungry Russian GAI-niks or mindless, indoctrinated Iranian militia than the 'computer says no' bureacracy of Britain.

Welcome back!!

Daniel

__________________
4.5 years around Eurasia in a Toyota Hilux|http://eurasiaoverland.wordpress.com/
Pictures Here|https://picasaweb.google.com/113619413612674951960

Insurance.
Try Stuart Collins and Co European Motor Insurance and Annual Green Cards
They are specialists in this sort of thing. If you have difficulties, come back to me via PM. The owner is a personal friend and will try harder!

MOT.
The test station can be anywhere - not necessarily close to your home. Just ensure you are reasonably 'en route' in terms of road usage and time. You are allowed to stop for rest (home overnight?) on your way. After the test you are permited to return literally anywhere. If it has failed, you can later use the vehicle to take it to/from any pre-booked place of repair. All withour tax.

Ensure the test is pre-booked, have proof of entry to UK (loading pass etc) and just get on with your journey. Just as I did a few months ago with an untaxed (by a few days) car with a long expired MOT.

SORN.
As you will have read, the vehicle has to be in the UK to be declared SORN. DVLA now acknowledge there is an anomoly in the Law, but are not sympathetic - they prefer to apply the letter of the Law rather than the spirit and try to extort informal Penalty Charges to supplement their Budget.
This is a separate topic away from this forum. Sufficient to say that at present I am part of an action 'against' DVLA through the Parliamentary Commons Committees, which hopefully will lead to a change of attitude.

Off Topic
You, like me, presumably have grown to love the personal freedoms of Russia and its CIS neighbours. I only go back to over-regulated, over-watched, over-restricted, over-taxed, rip-off Britain to see my family, enjoy proper and my 'local' pub life from time to time.

__________________
Vitim Bridge Clubwww.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442
www.sibirskyextreme.com

Thanks for the reply. Sums up my opinion. I was more asking how best to avoid cameras (A roads, motorway etc)

I would like to ask your opinion of one more thing... I know the car will fail an MOT, so I would waste about 60 quid just to get a fail certificate. Do you think a faxed confirmation of an MOT from a local garage will be enough to present to the DVLA if I get a letter asking why the car has been used? Or would I absolutely need a fail certificate? I could always say I got a puncture en route, was late and the car couldn't be tested that day, so drove home...

Daniel

__________________
4.5 years around Eurasia in a Toyota Hilux|http://eurasiaoverland.wordpress.com/
Pictures Here|https://picasaweb.google.com/113619413612674951960

With the all-seeing eye of the computer-based system, it is not clear to me that there is any way for "it" to know that a vehicle is not in the country. This has been discussed elsewhere in the HUBB in relation to the masses of UK registered vehicles that are driving around, say, France, with out of date tax discs and no current MOT certificate.
Of course, a vehicle can be declared SORN by online means and I don't suppose that the DVLA check on where such a SORN logon is located, yet.

__________________
Dave

Daniel,
Any feedback of note?
How did you get on with this?
(I looked at your blog again but it is marked as "private").

__________________
Dave

Cheers Dave, just read your reply in the Maroc thread

Anyone out there have any experience of having a UK reg bike MOT'd at a ITV station in Spain, let's say Algeciras, will UK insurers accept it, at least while only in Spain?

How strict are the Spanish officials at the border of Ceuta for checking MOT's, insurance and road tax.

Where to get road tax in Spain if your UK road tax and MOT is invalid.

Been out of the UK for a while and is resident in Morocco, returning my UK reg bike to UK as I'm not willing to pay import duties. The bike was shipped to Casa port. Bike is long overdue its first MOT and I am hoping a Spanish ITV can do the trick, at least just while in Spain.

Please no lecturing of should've done this and...... already had my fair share from the missus