I have a lien on my motorcycle so I don't
think I can get the actual title to the vehichle. Is this necessary or will the registration which has my name, tag #, and
vin # be sufficient.

Thanks,
HughC

The title is proof of ownership, the registration is proof that the vehicle is currently registered in the state where it is titled. You will not be able to get your lien holder to give you the title until the loan is paid off. So, you will not have a title to show the customs guys at the border when you want to enter, so they will not let you enter. Also, you will find that the bank (or whoever holds you title) will not want you to take the vehicle out of the country. The title is absolutely necessary to get across borders.
Dr. Gregory W. Frazier
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hughc:
I have a lien on my motorcycle so I don't
think I can get the actual title to the vehichle. Is this necessary or will the registration which has my name, tag #, and
vin # be sufficient.

Thanks,
HughC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
Sun Chaser, or 'Dr.G', Professor of Motorcycle Adventure at SOUND RIDER magazine. Professional Motorcycle Adventurer/Indian Motorcycle Racer/journalist/author/global economist/World's # 1 Motorcycle Adventure Sleeper & Wastrel
Soul Sensual Survivor: www.greataroundtheworldmotorcycleadventurerally.co m

<<so they will not let you enter>>

I've come up against this problem, going in to Mexico. But we got around it, and without any bribing.

The guy who had the title to my bike was right there, and he had a formal notation authorising me to ride it. The problem was that the Mexican authorities could not find anything in their book to cover it, so no go.

Another guy in a similar predicament (not with us) started ranting and raving. He never got in to Mexico.

To make a long story short, the head honcho arrived and also said no. Then our friend who was Argentinian born told the guy he was from Argentina. Voilà, instant entry approval.

It was an effor to remain polite and to persist for hours, but we made it and the guy who lacked both did not. I learnt also. Since then I've had some very happy experiences at some very foreign borders.

Peter

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sun Chaser:
<snip> The title is absolutely necessary to get across borders.
Dr. Gregory W. Frazier
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bummer! I just bought a new DR650 because I didn't want to worry about reliablitiy issues. Anyone know where I can get knobbies for a VFR?

Hugh

Don't know if this helps, but in Canada there is no 'title' document. We carried our original bill of sale for the bike, and our registration, and never had any problems at any borders in Central or South America.

So, either the border officials know that the US and Canadian systems are different, OR possibly carrying your original bill of sale / invoice for the bike along with your registration would be sufficient.

Greg, any thoughts on this?

This doesn't get around the fact your loan agreement might prohibit you from taking the bike out of the country, though.

Maybe you could get a loan from someone (relative, perhaps) to pay the bank lien off?

------------------
Good luck and safe travels!

Susan Johnson
Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 13 February 2002).]

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susan:
Don't know if this helps, but in Canada there is no 'title' document. We carried our original bill of sale for the bike, and our registration, and never had any problems at any borders in Central or South America.

So, either the border officials know that the US and Canadian systems are different, OR possibly carrying your original bill of sale / invoice for the bike along with your registration would be sufficient.

Greg, any thoughts on this?

This doesn't get around the fact your loan agreement might prohibit you from taking the bike out of the country, though.

Maybe you could get a loan from someone (relative, perhaps) to pay the bank lien off?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the instances I know of, the bank or loan agency will not release the title to you until it is paid off, so you will have no title. Getting into Canada was much easier. I let a guy use my bike last summer, gave him a notorized paper I wrote saying it was OK, and the rego, title and insurance certificate showing him as insured.
Getting into Mexico might be done if you are lucky enough to have an Argentine with you, but I know of no one who has done it without the right papers. Further south, impossible. You have to have the title. Half the time they do not care about the rego, and seldom insurance (I made up my own "insurance Certificate" for proof of insurance, which worked when I was aasked for it, which was seldom. But always, I handed them the title. Maybe with a Carnet de Passage you would not need the title. Don't know, did not use one through all of Central and South America. Oh yeah, screaming and yelling don't work.
Dr. Gregory W. Frazier



[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 14 February 2002).]

__________________
Sun Chaser, or 'Dr.G', Professor of Motorcycle Adventure at SOUND RIDER magazine. Professional Motorcycle Adventurer/Indian Motorcycle Racer/journalist/author/global economist/World's # 1 Motorcycle Adventure Sleeper & Wastrel
Soul Sensual Survivor: www.greataroundtheworldmotorcycleadventurerally.co m

Susan:

I think we actually do have a separate title / registration document in Canada.

In Ontario, the title ('ownership') is on the left side of the form, and the registration ('plate portion') is on the right side.

Normally, if you own the vehicle, you will have the original copy of both portions of the document, which is perforated down the middle. Only your name (registered owner) will appear on both sides. This is true even if there is a lien, because there is a formal process for lien registration in Canada, and the title cannot be transferred without an obligatory search for any liens that may have been registered.

However, if you lease the vehicle, the document will show the leasing company name on the left side, and the plate registrant name (operator's name) on the right. The leasing companies normally remove the original copy of the left side of the document and supply you with a photocopy to show to police if you are stopped. You retain the original copy of the plate portion.

It sounds like in Hugh's jurisdiction, the lien holder retains the title portion of the document.

In BC, possibly because we have government vehicle insurance, one form covers proof of insurance and vehicle registration, but the word 'Title' isn't used anywhere on the document.

So it obviously varies from province to province, and also between states, according to Greg.

Susan

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sun Chaser:
<snip>
Getting into Mexico might be done if you are lucky enough to have an Argentine with you, but I know of no one who has done it without the right papers. Further south, impossible. You have to have the title.
<snip>
Dr. Gregory W. Frazier

[This message has been edited by Susan (edited 14 February 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll be getting my title to my DR one way or another. But as a data point I made into Baja Mexico on my VFR without my title. I don't think I was asked for any documentation until I crossed from Baja to Baja Sur.

Hugh

About the titles- how strict are they? I am planning a similar trip through Central and south America, and the number on my KLR650 matches exactly the one on the title except for an "I" which is replaced by a "1". It was probably misread at the dealer, and the difference is hardly noticable. Is this a problem I should be concerned with? Are they that strict?

Well, if you were going into Egypt, I'd say you have a problem. When we crossed into Egypt from Libya, they took a rubbing of all numbers to compare to the documents, then another rubbing later on to compare it to the first one (in case we had changed the numbers on the bike while it was in the Customs area )

But in Central and South America, I'm sure you'll be okay. You can always argue that they're misreading the title document, it really is an I or 1 or whatever it needs to be to agree with the vehicle. OTOH, if it is possible to get the document fixed before you go, it might save you some hassles.

Susan

__________________
Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

In New York, and I believe most U.S. states, you do get a title even if you don't own the bike. My title says "One Lien Recorded" in reverse print big block boxes four times on my title. I can't transfer the bike to anyone else until the lien is removed in New York.

So I read these posts, called BMW Finance, and they told me that indeed, they did not want me to take the bike out of the country (I was in Newfoundland at the time.) I quickly paid off the rest of my loan - about $5000... which wiped out a lot of my travel money... and in return got a paper from BMW saying that the lien was taken care of.

Actually getting a title redone without the lien on it would have required returning to NYC in person with the paper and my title, and I was already en route to Alaska then Argentina. So all along I've been going with the orignal title plus the other paper that says the lien is paid off. I've never offered that paper to anyone - I figure why create more confusion where it already reigns. I have never been asked about the lien, through Canada, Mexico, every country in Central America, Ecuador and Peru. Even Ecuador, which is absolutely insane about these things did not notice or care. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have paid it off.

[This message has been edited by rndmtim (edited 25 January 2003).]

__________________
Watching white moon face,
The stars never feel anger,
Blah blah blah the end.

Also on the subject of titles...

If possible, before you leave home get a second copy of your title... in New York, we can order another title online at any time. Its possibly more complicated in most places, but this can be done by "losing" it... take the first one with you, have someone at home keep the other. I am traveling with a German couple, and her documents were stolen in Quito. The passport was easy and they got a new one in a day, but the embassy couldn't help them with a title - they would have had to return to Germany. So they had to forge a pair because they had to match - we used his as a sample. (We bought a stamp in Quito to do the seal of Bonn and I signed for the official at the bottom.)

I also had a title ripped off by a guia in Honduras, and since I didn't want to be there for a month I went to the guy's village the next day, found him and got it back... it worked but it was not my smartest move ever. I've ordered a duplicate now so if this ever happens again my girlfriend can Fedex it to me which might only take 5-10 days in Peru...

__________________
Watching white moon face,
The stars never feel anger,
Blah blah blah the end.

Not completely true about BMW. They will provide you with the proper documentation to take any bike out of the US. There are some simple limitations and some that aren't. You'll have to provide them with your trip info, itinarary and proof of insurance for that period. The only limitation (and this is the hard part) is you're only allowed 30-days to have it out.

All of this was fairly well advertised for the national gathering in Canada last year.

Insurance for Mexico is fairly easy to obtain prior to leaving the country. I purchased it weeks prior to leaving for Mexico in 1997 (4WD) and then purchased more for Belize at the border. We didn't purchase any for Guatemala since it was only a day trip and they didn't ask about it. :-)

Good luck!
Gerry

__________________
Gerry
PHX AZ USA

I'll be getting my title to my DR one way or another. But as a data point I made into Baja Mexico on my VFR without my title. I don't think I was asked for any documentation until I crossed from Baja to Baja Sur.

Hugh [/B][/QUOTE]

For anyone going to Baja in the north, you will not be asked for any paperwork. If you want to get to "baja sur" without a tourist card, visa, etc. just e-mail me and I can tell you how to do it.