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3 Sep 2010
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A cross-spoked rim is more stable then an ordinary rim if the same materials are used. If you look at the rims from the R80/100GS-era you will find that they are more solid then most other rims.
There are mainly two reasons why the R1xxx have weaker rims and that's because of cost and to keep unsprung (and rotating) mass low.
The cost of a set R1200-rims are lower then the cost of a set KTM 990-rims.
I can not remember to have seen cross-spoked rims on Japanese or English bikes, but I have seen them on BMW, Moto Guzzi and Aprilia.
The new Super Tenere (and the old XL600LM) uses a different (and IMHO weaker) system to achieve tubeless wheels.
For me this is not a big issue but I know a lot of riders prefer tubeless and some have converted bikes with conventional rim to tubeless (eg: KTM990 with parts from Capo Nord).
I have converted the other way around, simply because heavy-duty tubeless rims are not available.
As far as I know it has never been produced a standard cross-spoked rim with 36 spokes for 18" and 21" and I doubt Triumph will be the first, but if they do I think quite a few people will buy the rims and use them for other bikes.
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3 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey D
Most Tubeless spooked wheels are expensive and soft. Will be interesting to see if Triumph end up using them as it will add to MSRP price. I believe only Behr and Akront make these and I think Behr own the patent.
John Bloor resisted going with these "cross spoke" type wheels on earlier Tigers because Behr wanted a hefty licensing fee. Both BMW and Aprilia use this wheel under license.
Early versions were soft, dented easily in off road use. Perhaps later ones are stronger? The standard GS BMW no longer uses them. Note: the F800GS uses standard Steel spoked wheels. Heavy but strong.
The last year of the 955i Tiger (2006) Triumph finally gave the Tiger cast Alu tubeless wheels. Customers had bitched about the spoked tube type wheels since day one ... took them 11 years to finally provide a "fix". Triumph no doubt lost thousands of sales because the Tigers had tubes, owners couldn't be bothered.
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The cast wheels were available on the Tiger 955 from 2005.
They were one of many changes to the tiger for the 2005 model year including linear chain adjusters, single rate fork springs, 40 mm shorter fork legs with 30 mm less travel.Revised rake/trail and wheelbase reduced.
Different compression and rebound damping rates and revised spring rate on RSU.
The reason for all these changes and many more (which I have'nt mentioned) was to make the 2005 Tiger a more road biased bike.
And one of Triumph's best sellers here in the U.K. and Europe.
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4 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
The cast wheels were available on the Tiger 955 from 2005.
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Not in the USA they weren't. 2006 model only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
They were one of many changes to the tiger for the 2005 model year including linear chain adjusters, single rate fork springs, 40 mm shorter fork legs with 30 mm less travel.Revised rake/trail and wheelbase reduced.
Different compression and rebound damping rates and revised spring rate on RSU.
The reason for all these changes and many more (which I have'nt mentioned) was to make the 2005 Tiger a more road biased bike.
And one of Triumph's best sellers here in the U.K. and Europe.
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Seems Triumph were busy revising suspension rates on every Tiger model from 2001 onward. Didn't help sales all that much in the USA. And few knew of these changes as Triumph ran few ads ... anywhere in the US.
On the forums the Tiger's continuous suspension upgrades became a bit of a joke ... rather like "Bold New Graphics".
Fact is, the bike was slightly better every year. But Triumph still left out certain things riders had complained about for years ... like too big levers! Still the same on the 1050!  (and of course 12 years of the tubed tires I mentioned before did not help!)
The top heaviness was never addressed and the heavy lump never really dealt with on the 955i. Triumph still use too much hardware in their assemblies ... too many bolts, too long, over 'spec'd for the job. Even on the 1050 I can point this out all over the bike ... much as I love it.
But when you consider Triumph's size and resources ... well, they've done great.
With the 675 they finally got it right. Built like a Japanese bike but not as tidy with hoses, cable routing. Still, big improvement and an awesome performer. (I've only ridden the Street Triple)
The 955i Tiger was a bit of a flop in the UsA market. I'm hoping the new 800 Triumph Tiger Cub can do better. Maybe they can hire Michael Locke back to market it? He used to work for them, then went to Ducati ... now?
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8 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey D
Not in the USA they weren't. 2006 model only.
Seems Triumph were busy revising suspension rates on every Tiger model from 2001 onward. Didn't help sales all that much in the USA. And few knew of these changes as Triumph ran few ads ... anywhere in the US.
On the forums the Tiger's continuous suspension upgrades became a bit of a joke ... rather like "Bold New Graphics".
Fact is, the bike was slightly better every year. But Triumph still left out certain things riders had complained about for years ... like too big levers! Still the same on the 1050! (and of course 12 years of the tubed tires I mentioned before did not help!)
The top heaviness was never addressed and the heavy lump never really dealt with on the 955i. Triumph still use too much hardware in their assemblies ... too many bolts, too long, over 'spec'd for the job. Even on the 1050 I can point this out all over the bike ... much as I love it.
But when you consider Triumph's size and resources ... well, they've done great.
With the 675 they finally got it right. Built like a Japanese bike but not as tidy with hoses, cable routing. Still, big improvement and an awesome performer. (I've only ridden the Street Triple)
The 955i Tiger was a bit of a flop in the UsA market. I'm hoping the new 800 Triumph Tiger Cub can do better. Maybe they can hire Michael Locke back to market it? He used to work for them, then went to Ducati ... now? |
Sorry, I should have said cast wheels were available from 2005 model year.
If you run the vin on a 2006 Tiger 955 you will see that its a 2005 model year bike.
The suspension remained the same on the tiger 955 from 2001(vin124106 to 287503) to 2004, no changes.
Seems like supension upgrade were a bit of a joke allright, there were no upgrades! 
I think Triumph will be releasing more than the new Tiger (it wont be called Tiger Cub) this year. Theres a lot of interesting development work going on on Normandy way at the moment.
Tried the new V-strom 650 xpedition today, now thats a pretty good value bike, the box's didnt feel all that strong though.
If Triumph play their cards right with this bike it should outsell anything they have allready.
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9 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
Sorry, I should have said cast wheels were available from 2005 model year.
If you run the vin on a 2006 Tiger 955 you will see that its a 2005 model year bike.
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Does not work that way in the USA. The main metal I.D. tag all bikes have has the VIN and Date of manufacture ... not "model year". In the USA what determines what model year is Triumph America and how they list it upon importation.
This is typical. A new, 2006 bike would be manufactured in 2005, says so right on the VIN / I.D. tag. But is sold and marketed as a new 2006 model.
Been that way here since forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
The suspension remained the same on the tiger 955 from 2001(vin124106 to 287503) to 2004, no changes.
Seems like supension upgrade were a bit of a joke allright, there were no upgrades!
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Thats not what I remember from reading the press releases every year and reviewing the bikes.
Triumph repeatedly made minor spring rate or damping changes, every year or nearly every year. I don't mean major changes, just minor damping rate changes to counteract the continuing complaint from the sports bikes crowd in the UK that the Tiger dove too much under braking. This crowd obviously never rode the bike on California roads 
That plush suspension and longish travel was always a good thing ... and only amateurs use front brake only on a trailie.
I don't save press releases but since I owned a Tiger I usually get this right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
I think Triumph will be releasing more than the new Tiger (it wont be called Tiger Cub) this year. Theres a lot of interesting development work going on on Normandy way at the moment.
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Lots of rumors floating around about a 1200 Sport touring bike to compete with FJR, ST and BMW K1300. I have no interest in any of those. Latest from Triumph call it Tiger 800. Two models, road and adventure. From the look of it ... I'm not sure Triumph are ready with this bike. OK, line up the Beta testers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
Tried the new V-strom 650 xpedition today, now thats a pretty good value bike, the box's didnt feel all that strong though.
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What other changes to the DL650 beyond boxes? Had not heard the xpendition monikor yet ... what is it? They've sold the bike with panniers and ABS for a number of years ... any significant upgrades or changes you know of? Things are quiet at American Suzuki on the Wee Strom these days. Far as I know, same old bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
If Triumph play their cards right with this bike it should outsell anything they have allready.
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Could be, but I would not discount the continuing success of the Street Triple. But I hope no one will judge Triumph's success or failure by sales in the USA. Our economy continues in a depression and I don't see any up tick soon. The Motorcycle industry sales are at all time lows and sinking further. Soon we'll see who really has deep pockets.
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10 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Does not work that way in the USA. The main metal I.D. tag all bikes have has the VIN and Date of manufacture ... not "model year". In the USA what determines what model year is Triumph America and how they list it upon importation.
This is typical. A new, 2006 bike would be manufactured in 2005, says so right on the VIN / I.D. tag. But is sold and marketed as a new 2006 model.
Been that way here since forever.
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This is not how its done in the trade, we use the vin number and only the vin number for everything.
All manufacturers do this.
Been that way since forever.
Quote:
Thats not what I remember from reading the press releases every year and reviewing the bikes.
Triumph repeatedly made minor spring rate or damping changes, every year or nearly every year. I don't mean major changes, just minor damping rate changes to counteract the continuing complaint from the sports bikes crowd in the UK that the Tiger dove too much under braking. This crowd obviously never rode the bike on California roads
That plush suspension and longish travel was always a good thing ... and only amateurs use front brake only on a trailie.
I don't save press releases but since I owned a Tiger I usually get this right.
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I can tell you from allmost 20 years of manufacturer training that the information you have about spring rate and damping rate changes between 2001 and 2004 is wrong.
I dont save press releases either but since I have 20 years of training notes open in front of me I know this is right.
Thankfully, suspension settings are not based on Claifornia roads, or we would all be riding brash, ill handling, all mouth and no trousers hardley rideables.( I had one of these once and was astounded at how utterley crap it was, held its value though!)
Quote:
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What other changes to the DL650 beyond boxes? Had not heard the xpendition monikor yet ... what is it? They've sold the bike with panniers and ABS for a number of years ... any significant upgrades or changes you know of? Things are quiet at American Suzuki on the Wee Strom these days. Far as I know, same old bike.
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Its the same wee strom, but comes with alloy bash plate, hand gaurds, heated grips, engine bars and centre stand along with alloy panniers as standard. looks good in orange.
Around £7500 stg here.
Quote:
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Could be, but I would not discount the continuing success of the Street Triple. But I hope no one will judge Triumph's success or failure by sales in the USA. Our economy continues in a depression and I don't see any up tick soon. The Motorcycle industry sales are at all time lows and sinking further. Soon we'll see who really has deep pockets.
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Couldnt agree more  The Just seen 4 new Street Triples go out this week, and rode one with a full arrow system fitted today, what a sound! and unbelievable fun.
This thread is getting off course, (sorry admins).
Lets try and keep to the subject at hand, I sense a telling off is close at hand from the mods.
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13 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
This thread is getting off course, (sorry admins).
Lets try and keep to the subject at hand, I sense a telling off is close at hand from the mods.
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uh huh...
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18 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant Johnson
uh huh...
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Please accept my sincere apologies for ever starting this thread ! AAAARRGGGHHH !!! 
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18 Sep 2010
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Horizon's Reader's Digest Version- Sanitized For Your Protection
Today was supposed to be the day the Triumph 800 was revealed to adoring fans at a pay event at the Factory ... you had to pay for a ticket!
Can you believe that!?
But they've Punked out. Here is the link from Hell For Leather:
Triumph Tiger 800 leakathon continues | Hell for Leather
So far Triumph are jerking off their biggest fans ... and the press. I wonder how long they can do this before loyal buyers bail? 
But ... as I predicted over a year ago ... the Triumph 800 will not be delivered in EU/UK until March '11, earliest. But maybe ... if they are smart ... it will appear in Milan in October '11. Unless Bloor & Co deem that too much an expenditure? Or a more likely scenario is they're way behind on these bikes ... Perhaps still making changes and adjustments to proto types before locking everything in for production? 
USA Launch? Mid-Summer 2011.
I wonder if Triumph will stagger the release of the two models the way BMW did with the F800/F650 GS's? In the USA for about the first six months or more only the F800GS was available. In the UK I think this was reversed?
18-15:00
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19 Sep 2010
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19 Sep 2010
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Back on track
Anywhoooo.
To get back on subject, did anyone see the new 800 Tiger pics in MCN this week?
Nice looking frame, kind of a minimalist look to it.
There was some pics 2 weeks ago of the new 1200 Tiger, it reminded me of the R1150GS.
Im not sure if thats a good thing though!
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19 Sep 2010
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Was at the Triumph Live event at Mallory Pk yesterday. They had a tent with 2 bike crates in it. One with the back crate panel removed, one with the front removed. Both allegedly had the "new" (wooopeee) Adventure bike in it. Photos weren't permitted.
From a very cursory inspection, the front end of the 1st bike had a spoked 21 inch front wheel and lots of fanicily (IMHO) molded plastic bits that looked a lot like a F800gs and the back end of the other looked like a 17 rear with, again lots of wacky molded plastic shaped stuff, like the Yam xt660 Tenere.
Maybe it will be a f800gs/XT660T hybrid?
When you get the chance, check the Triumph clothing catalogue and their "Adventure Clothing" section. I would scan and upload the appropriate (IMHO funny) pages, but I can't find the cable that connects my scanner to the PC, sorry). So, if you buy the bike, make sure you buy the gear so you can look the part...
From a bygone era:
Regards
Bald and dyed with wool in his flies, C
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19 Sep 2010
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Note accessories on right of first picture:
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20 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
Was at the Triumph Live event at Mallory Pk yesterday. They had a tent with 2 bike crates in it. One with the back crate panel removed, one with the front removed. Both allegedly had the "new" (wooopeee) Adventure bike in it. Photos weren't permitted.
From a very cursory inspection, the front end of the 1st bike had a spoked 21 inch front wheel and lots of fanicily (IMHO) molded plastic bits that looked a lot like a F800gs and the back end of the other looked like a 17 rear with, again lots of wacky molded plastic shaped stuff, like the Yam xt660 Tenere.
Maybe it will be a f800gs/XT660T hybrid?
When you get the chance, check the Triumph clothing catalogue and their "Adventure Clothing" section. I would scan and upload the appropriate (IMHO funny) pages, but I can't find the cable that connects my scanner to the PC, sorry). So, if you buy the bike, make sure you buy the gear so you can look the part...
From a bygone era:
Regards
Bald and dyed with wool in his flies, C |
Hey Chris, just had a look at your website,some really nice pics.
What parts of Ireland did you visit?
I,d really like to have made it to Mallory park yesterday for the 20 years of Triumph party, but had to work, Id like to have seen the Stranglers play there too. I think some of the other guys called in for a couple of hours.
Ill have a look at the clothing catalogue in the morning when I get in.
Yeah the 800 does look a little like an F800GS from the front, Im not crazy about the front "beak" though.
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20 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian74
Im not crazy about the front "beak" though.
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The beak is apparently removable - the 800 XC will have it as standard and the 800 won't, it will just have a normal front mudguard.
The wheels are also interchangeable, so the 19/17" cast wheels could be fitted to the XC for road duties and vice-versa.
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