need for an armchair forum?

[Walkabout]

.........that's one answer to the question; far too many people post first, asking a question that has been answered multiple times.
As a side issue, it may be that an increasing number of people want it handed to them "on a plate", saving them thinking and acting for themselves (I'm not saying that DougieB is doing this - just an example of not searching!!).

In summary, the search function is very powerful.

On the specific poll. It is disappointing that this poll has been here for less than a day, whereas this one:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...od-stuff-30852

has been up for over a month with very little feedback provided.

Yes, no doubt this website will have changed over the years - show me something that has not changed - and it needs to continue to evolve in order to serve its' "audience".
So, my plea would be to get voting on all of the polls.

For my 2 cents worth, the site will benefit from increased structure like the recent additions of recommendations for both accommodation and workshops; a general forum is not required but more structured, specific ones are - how about bike maintenance, generic, not specific to model: how many times does a recommendation for a scott oiler or whatever have to be associated with a specific model of HonYamKawaBMW?
And what about the preparation of a DR650 for distance travelling in the bike tech? - most of that is generic - what I am saying here, is that the bike tech section is looking very thin.

Summary: increasing content requires increased structure - sorry Grant, more work for you!

[Grant Johnson]

Originally Posted by Walkabout

.........that's one answer to the question; far too many people post first, asking a question that has been answered multiple times.
As a side issue, it may be that an increasing number of people want it handed to them "on a plate", saving them thinking and acting for themselves (I'm not saying that DougieB is doing this - just an example of not searching!!).

In summary, the search function is very powerful.

And we have a much more powerful search engine in beta on our test server right now - it will get better. The current one doesn't do boolean AND OR NOT NEAR etc which annoys me no end, and the new one will.

Originally Posted by Walkabout

On the specific poll. It is disappointing that this poll has been here for less than a day, whereas this one:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...od-stuff-30852

has been up for over a month with very little feedback provided.

Yep - always amazes me how few people bother to give feedback - without it I have no way of knowing what people want. You do have to register to vote, but how hard is that and why wouldn't you when you get so much more capability just in viewing and being able to pm and contact people?

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Yes, no doubt this website will have changed over the years - show me something that has not changed - and it needs to continue to evolve in order to serve its' "audience".
So, my plea would be to get voting on all of the polls.

YES!

Originally Posted by Walkabout

For my 2 cents worth, the site will benefit from increased structure like the recent additions of recommendations for both accommodation and workshops; a general forum is not required but more structured, specific ones are - how about bike maintenance, generic, not specific to model: how many times does a recommendation for a scott oiler or whatever have to be associated with a specific model of HonYamKawaBMW?
And what about the preparation of a DR650 for distance travelling in the bike tech? - most of that is generic - what I am saying here, is that the bike tech section is looking very thin.

Summary: increasing content requires increased structure - sorry Grant, more work for you!

We are working on the Bike Tech section to make it more accessible and more useful to all, but I agree - it's thin, and as a former mechanic and still bike geek, (and motorcycle maintenance course instructor) I find that annoying - I'd like to build up the tech section a lot - so what do you want?

Walkabout listed one new tech forum "Generic Bike Maintenance" perhaps - which has merit - anyone else agree?

Any other forums?

[Hustler]

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson

..........Walkabout listed one new tech forum "Generic Bike Maintenance" perhaps ..............

There is a maintenance site already out there which has been referred to on here before.
It's at Motorcycle Repair Course and does contain some very useful information although obviously it isn't controlled by the Hubb and therefore could disappear at any time.

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson

........... Any other forums?

I'd like to see one on other 4 wheel transport as I'd be interested in a van / campervan section but no idea if it would be of interest to other folk.

[Grant Johnson]

Originally Posted by Hustler

There is a maintenance site already out there which has been referred to on here before.
It's at Motorcycle Repair Course and does contain some very useful information although obviously it isn't controlled by the Hubb and therefore could disappear at any time.

I'm ALWAYS reluctant to depend on other sites - they come and go far too often - we're here to stay - 10 years as of Christmas 07.

Originally Posted by Hustler

I'd like to see one on other 4 wheel transport as I'd be interested in a van / campervan section but no idea if it would be of interest to other folk.

I'm listening - in the meantime the 4wd forums are 4 wheels generally.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson

I'm ALWAYS reluctant to depend on other sites - they come and go far too often - we're here to stay - 10 years as of Christmas 07.



I'm listening - in the meantime the 4wd forums are 4 wheels generally.

Hi again,
That M/C maintenance site is pretty good though and it seems to have been around for quite some time - I flagged it up a few months ago on here as well but it has not been viewed very much:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-stuff-27640

Just a thought then: could you "cut a deal" with the site owner in some way and put him in here as a more formal link (no point in re-inventing round things)?

As for the 4 wheel stuff; you might consider a forum for 3 wheels - you will know they have been cropping up in a number of threads recently; there is no single place to discuss sidecars, fitting the damn things, Urals etc etc.

ps Yes, leave the camper vans and quads in the 4 wheel section; it's a bit like the Yam bit (which is still dominated by XTs!), with its' concentration on 4x4s.

pps Suggest you move the HU feedback part of this web layout to the "top of the page", just below traveller advisories and above all of the rest - then the welcome/feedback etc is much more in peoples' faces and they might vote more often.

[Matt Cartney]

I think a casual chat forum is not a bad idea.

One of the reasons I like this forum is the relative lack of aggresive wankers who respond to a genuine question from someone (OK, possibly someone naive who has done a minimum of research) with a lot of mickey taking or with that "you're not hard/adventurous/macho enough to post on this forum" pish. I always find it a little heart warming when some guy who's done a ten year multi-circumnavigation of the globe on Ural/Enfield hybrid with a wooden leg and on a budget of £6.50 takes the trouble to give a load of tips to another guy who's going to Spain on his new GS.

However, inevitably there are some people who enjoy the banter and sword-play of a public forum and possibly have too much time on their hands who's posts would be better placed on a 'down the pub' style forum where they don't get in the way of the hard info.

Matt

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney

I think a casual chat forum is not a bad idea.

One of the reasons I like this forum is the relative lack of aggresive wankers who respond to a genuine question from someone (OK, possibly someone naive who has done a minimum of research) with a lot of mickey taking or with that "you're not hard/adventurous/macho enough to post on this forum" pish. I always find it a little heart warming when some guy who's done a ten year multi-circumnavigation of the globe on Ural/Enfield hybrid with a wooden leg and on a budget of £6.50 takes the trouble to give a load of tips to another guy who's going to Spain on his new GS.

However, inevitably there are some people who enjoy the banter and sword-play of a public forum and possibly have too much time on their hands who's posts would be better placed on a 'down the pub' style forum where they don't get in the way of the hard info.

Matt

I agree in principle with your points Matt, but I voted the other way. This is because there are many, many instances of threads going off topic frequently; even during the last 24 hours this one has not stayed on topic for very long!!
Therefore, there will be no particular incentive or reason for anyone to bother with the proposed new forum, as per your last sentence - I believe the present "off topic" tendency would simply continue.

I believe that the moderators would have to monitor the posts more regularly and transfer wrongly placed posts much more rigorously in order to get the new "regime" implemented; do they want that workload?

[Martynbiker]

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney

I think a casual chat forum is not a bad idea.

One of the reasons I like this forum is the relative lack of aggresive wankers who respond to a genuine question from someone (OK, possibly someone naive who has done a minimum of research) with a lot of mickey taking or with that "you're not hard/adventurous/macho enough to post on this forum" pish. I always find it a little heart warming when some guy who's done a ten year multi-circumnavigation of the globe on Ural/Enfield hybrid with a wooden leg and on a budget of £6.50 takes the trouble to give a load of tips to another guy who's going to Spain on his new GS.

However, inevitably there are some people who enjoy the banter and sword-play of a public forum and possibly have too much time on their hands who's posts would be better placed on a 'down the pub' style forum where they don't get in the way of the hard info.

Matt

In general Matt, I will research,some people have NO IDEA how to research stuff, and do everything I can to help a fellow Biker... if I can help I will.

on the Other Hand....... that I can be sometimes cant resist having a 'Dig' at those that need 'loosening up' a little.

Life is for Living and Enjoying! you will all be dead soon enough anyway! so before anyone jumps at one of my comments, imagine it being said with a sly grin and a twinkle in the eye!

Martyn

[Dodger]

I've not found the search to be very effective so far , maybe just my ineptitude .

But I've been pleasantly surprised many times whilst I have been reading threads when an unexpected gem of information is contributed by someone [and it may be completely off topic as well ] .

If you try to compartmentalise [ is there such a word ?] the HUBB too much , there will be a tendency for one to just use it like an encyclopaedia and only extract knowledge and not to give knowledge as a byproduct of conversation .

It has been my observation that threads labelled as being "technical" or "in search of info" very rarely go off topic .
It's the threads that deal with opinions ,rather than pure facts, which tend to go astray and they seem to occur randomly .

It's not so many years ago that we had no internet and therefore no internet exchange of information , however did people travel in those days ? They managed just fine I would imagine . Reading a couple of pages of pish is not much of a hassle to get valuable info on the road that might otherwise take days or even weeks to get to you by other means .

I belong to a discussion group that deals with motorbike tech questions , if you want to contribute something that is off topic , you are requested to add "off topic rant " to your heading . Then a reader can be selective about what posts he views .

[Walkabout]

Another day, and the other poll for website feedback (which is a sticky, so it certainly does not need a "bump") has been viewed about the same number of times as this one, it has less than half as many replies as this one and it still has just 12 votes as of now.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...od-stuff-30852

Which poll is more important?
For instance, on another "off topic", does this website need an area to discuss bike racing? I have enjoyed reading, and very occasionally contributing something, about the imminent Dakar, road racing, Enduro, Trials etc etc. but I don't, personally, see a need to address these as part of specific dedicated discussion areas in the HUBB.
Perhaps it does not matter; there are other websites for all of these, and they are covered in far more detail already, and this includes the subject matter of Dan's poll, as he himself says.

Arguably, the whole of the HUBB can stay as it is for the random accumulation of information, opinion, rants, whatever, while the rest of HU develops the encyclopaedic knowledge base side of things.

So, what Grant needs to know is which way to develop this whole website because it cannot stand still.

[DougieB]

the second post seems to have set the tone here, with the idea of a real traveller being somehow better than an armchair traveller. this is nothing to do with my original suggestion, I'm not interested in belittling or glorifying anyone.

It's simply, with the quantity of posts these days, after a while away it can take ages to even view the 5 pages of subjects in the 24hr view. Especially if the connection drops frequently.

Adding a sub-forum for general banter, and having some way of excluding this from the general 24hr view is what I'm suggesting. But then, I guess, if more people are bantering than travelling then the majority view will be no-change, because the banter is the draw.

Maybe, instead, a hubb-light/on-the-road link for a view of the forums? Create an emoticon for 'banter', which could be tagged on threads that are just that. And the on-the-road view simply excludes these types of posts from the 24hr search? hmm.. each post/reply allows you to add an icon, so people could tag their own replies as banter. Work out the banter-ratio (4 posts, 3 are banter, this thread is 75% banter), and filter on that?

The 'poll' buttons should maybe be at the end of the last post, as that way you've read and can make a judgement. with the current results visible. Human nature to need things to flow in an easy order, rather than go back.

[Martynbiker]

Originally Posted by DougieB

the second post seems to have set the tone here, with the idea of a real traveller being somehow better than an armchair traveller. this is nothing to do with my original suggestion, I'm not interested in belittling or glorifying anyone.

It's simply, with the quantity of posts these days, after a while away it can take ages to even view the 5 pages of subjects in the 24hr view. Especially if the connection drops frequently.

Adding a sub-forum for general banter, and having some way of excluding this from the general 24hr view is what I'm suggesting. But then, I guess, if more people are bantering than travelling then the majority view will be no-change, because the banter is the draw.

Maybe, instead, a hubb-light/on-the-road link for a view of the forums? Create an emoticon for 'banter', which could be tagged on threads that are just that. And the on-the-road view simply excludes these types of posts from the 24hr search? hmm.. each post/reply allows you to add an icon, so people could tag their own replies as banter. Work out the banter-ratio (4 posts, 3 are banter, this thread is 75% banter), and filter on that?

The 'poll' buttons should maybe be at the end of the last post, as that way you've read and can make a judgement. with the current results visible. Human nature to need things to flow in an easy order, rather than go back.

without the FIRST post, I couldnt have 'set the tone'. also the rest of you could have just ignored me!
Always remember Dougie Old Boy, when you point the finger at someone, there are three pointed back at yourself......

Regards n best wishes

Martyn

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by DougieB

Adding a sub-forum for general banter, and having some way of excluding this from the general 24hr view is what I'm suggesting. But then, I guess, if more people are bantering than travelling then the majority view will be no-change, because the banter is the draw.

Therein lies "the problem" Dougie: the banter develops spontaneously and randomly from some posts and not from others i.e. the whole of the HUBB can contain some banter, sooner or later, often by going completely off topic or going off topic by just a small amount. Even the factual technical stuff can go off topic and it can contain such banter I reckon, which indicates to me that there is not an inclination/discipline among contributors to specifically start a new thread when they feel inclined toward "taking the Micky" or whatever it is that motivates them at that time.

As with other websites, some posts may be a simple single sentence or even one or more of those smiley things, which adds to the list of postings in the last 24 hours. Fortunately, this site does not suffer from this to anything like the degree of certain others - having to wade through a pile of "non-contributions" to find the next useful reply.
I use the new posts search a lot; it is very handy, but as you point out it does not discriminate in any way.

Grants new search facility may offer an answer?

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Dodger

But I've been pleasantly surprised many times whilst I have been reading threads when an unexpected gem of information is contributed by someone [and it may be completely off topic as well ] .


It has been my observation that threads labelled as being "technical" or "in search of info" very rarely go off topic .
It's the threads that deal with opinions ,rather than pure facts, which tend to go astray and they seem to occur randomly .


I belong to a discussion group that deals with motorbike tech questions , if you want to contribute something that is off topic , you are requested to add "off topic rant " to your heading . Then a reader can be selective about what posts he views .

Not sure about that Dodger; the technical stuff can still go off at tangents to the original question/statement. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make it more difficult to find such information later I suppose; a search by thread would not show the full content of a thread that is off topic while a search for keywords would do so is my guess - but who knows, I am certainly no expert in how to search, and there is guidance in here I understand about how to carry out searches (the sun is shining and I am getting off this computer in the next 5 minutes so I am not looking for that right now!).

Do we have the discipline to do as you suggest in your last sentence? Will the moderators impose such discipline in the future (I have an impression that this happens more frequently in other websites than on here)?

[mattcbf600]

... as we discovered when I asked a few months or so ago 'what is adventure biking'... we all have quite different ideas of what cuts the mustard...

So what is banter? How on earth would you draw the line between a thread that's about the inner workings of the latest GS suspension system, or a request for a good B&B in Eastern Outer Mongolian Russia moving on to what is the best compressor for me to buy for the garage, oh and by the way anyone heading to the NEC this weekend?

See it's a minefield; and unless you have a very strict line of moderators (and who wants that?) to keep us all in line and posting in the right areas then I can't see how it would be workable.

I run a very wayward list for the BBC called backstage - backstage.bbc.co.uk :: Front Page :: | and whilst not a forum (it's a mailing list) we have this piece of advice for our users.

The list's House Rules are simple: Be Nice To Each Other and Don't Break The Law. If you are rude or spam the list then you'll be taken off.

Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters.