need for an armchair forum?

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by DougieB

A few years ago this forum was a different place. it was pure motorbike travel talk, mainly facts but with occasional banter. these days there's lots of pish posted about this and that, a lot unrelated to the actual act of getting your bike/4x4/cycle across the land. I guess it's an inevitable result of fashion.

'Pish' is obviously a relative term, one mans pish is another mans nectar (so to speak...)

When out and about travelling, having to search through pish to get to the meat of the content is sometimes a costly experience. A slow link, and 5 pages of recent posts about "chuckie and ewan", or "does my bum look big in this" (always male!), or "will a GXYZ1500 make it along the Kings Road, or do I need knobblies", is a costly and frustrating thing.

is it time for a 'social' or 'armchair' forum that doesn't show up in the 'do=getdaily&hours=24'?

Hi Dougie,
Your prayers have been answered: the Bar is set up (not sure if you can run up a tab there however).
Perhaps it will still show up in the "last 24", or whatever, timeframe, but at least you will be able to recognise it for what it is.
Maybe, this bar will even have a male only section??!

ps the poll vote makes interesting reading: democracy is such a great concept.

[DougieB]

Yeah, I'm happy. I have nothing to do with it though, ie I didn't suggest it other than this thread.

My point was always that people should be free to post what they wish, but posts and threads (with useful stuff in them) were being hi-jacked with non-useful (to the business of travelling overland) stuff. So when you're on a terrible link, it does take a long time (and cash) to find what you're looking for.

Like all democracy, only people with a vested interest tend to vote so it's never really an accurate reflection of what the totality want. Maybe just a guide.

[Lars]

A chatter's forum most definetely is required, if only to get the chatters out of the other sections...

As to the fact that a lot of questions get asked several times, I'd plead for a HU-Wiki.

It would not replace the HUBB, since the board would be a place for diskussions, the Wiki could be the place for facts as experienced by the individual travellers. I do not know if there is such a possibility, but maybe it would make sense to have it moderated just to make sure only facts are published. Links could be set to relevant discussions on HUB. I also found it annoying to have to search several long threads (from an internet cafe with a bad connection...) in order to find relevant facts.

Lars

[Alexlebrit]

I can't see a link anywhere so I'm guessing there isn't one. I run a small forum (admittedly using IPB) and we have a lo-res version if it built in. I think it's primarily for PDAs and Smartphones, but on PC it does really help with loading times if you're on a slow connection as it strips out a lot of the formatting, pictures etc.

I know it's OT a bit , but as a way to view and use the HUBB on the road it'd be great when your connnection speed is poor.

[mattcbf600]

Originally Posted by Lars

A chatter's forum most definetely is required, if only to get the chatters out of the other sections...

As to the fact that a lot of questions get asked several times, I'd plead for a HU-Wiki.

It would not replace the HUBB, since the board would be a place for diskussions, the Wiki could be the place for facts as experienced by the individual travellers. I do not know if there is such a possibility, but maybe it would make sense to have it moderated just to make sure only facts are published. Links could be set to relevant discussions on HUB. I also found it annoying to have to search several long threads (from an internet cafe with a bad connection...) in order to find relevant facts.

Lars

Ultimately this is all up to Grant and Susan - I love the idea of a HUBB wiki - but actually I think that may take something away from what HUBB is all about - and of course - why even try to compete with people like this? Free Worldwide Travel Guides - Wikitravel

m

[mattcbf600]

Originally Posted by Alexlebrit

I can't see a link anywhere so I'm guessing there isn't one. I run a small forum (admittedly using IPB) and we have a lo-res version if it built in. I think it's primarily for PDAs and Smartphones, but on PC it does really help with loading times if you're on a slow connection as it strips out a lot of the formatting, pictures etc.

I know it's OT a bit , but as a way to view and use the HUBB on the road it'd be great when your connnection speed is poor.

Or perhaps even easier... RSS feeds of each of the forums? That way you can just subscribe to the forums that you're interested in.... There are several RSS plugins for this forum software - but I wouldn't want to be the one to try and integrate it!

It took me an age to make it work on our very simple forum with no customisation - but then I'm not exactly a PHP wizz.

m

[Lars]

Originally Posted by mattcbf600

Ultimately this is all up to Grant and Susan -

Sure enough, but the main problem of the forum is for me that the information is somewhere here, it is just sometimes hard to find it. It happened several times that I searched for information I could not find, only to stumble across a thread later because I did not use the right keywords (particularly difficult for non native speakers like myself to find the right phrases). And sometimes, the forum-style presentation is not very well suited for some information. For example it still does not make sense to me to open 10 different sub-forums for accomodation and yet another 10 subforums for repair shops. So much klickwork

I also do not think it is about competition. There are thousands of travel-related sites out there. I use a number of them but always come back to HU. Where do I find the specific motorbike-related info on wikitravel or somebody who travelled that particular country/ before and who is willing to confirm that this trip is doable...

I would think it is just about presentation and giving people a way of finding relevant info easily.

[Grant Johnson]

Originally Posted by mattcbf600

Or perhaps even easier... RSS feeds of each of the forums? That way you can just subscribe to the forums that you're interested in.... There are several RSS plugins for this forum software - but I wouldn't want to be the one to try and integrate it!

It took me an age to make it work on our very simple forum with no customisation - but then I'm not exactly a PHP wizz.

m

See the FAQ - it's all there.

General Forum Usage, RSS feed...

If you KNOW of a plugin that's better than the default send me the link please.

ta, G

It looks to me that the Bar or Armchair forum is trying to corral the off topic posters and idiots who have little experience but have a view on everything.
I am not sure the bar will achieve this they will still continue to post as before and just fill the bar with complete drivel as we can see already.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub.../bar-dog-32776

If you have a group of people you will always have someone who can't behave, don't try and change them just accept it, either deal with it as an individual or as a group but your wasting your time to try and make them tow the line.

Steve

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by SteveAttwood

It looks to me that the Bar or Armchair forum is trying to corral the off topic posters and idiots who have little experience but have a view on everything.
I am not sure the bar will achieve this they will still continue to post as before and just fill the bar with complete drivel as we can see already.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub.../bar-dog-32776

If you have a group of people you will always have someone who can't behave, don't try and change them just accept it, either deal with it as an individual or as a group but your wasting your time to try and make them tow the line.

Steve

It's just a matter of moderation Steve: the moderators will sort it out in other words.

The poll is strange though: for a long time it stood as "evens", at something like 10-10 or 12-12, now it is 19- something in favour of the "bar", now that the bar is established in any case.
A case of "reinforcing success"?

[Grant Johnson]

Originally Posted by Lars

Sure enough, but the main problem of the forum is for me that the information is somewhere here, it is just sometimes hard to find it. It happened several times that I searched for information I could not find, only to stumble across a thread later because I did not use the right keywords (particularly difficult for non native speakers like myself to find the right phrases). And sometimes, the forum-style presentation is not very well suited for some information.

For example it still does not make sense to me to open 10 different sub-forums for accomodation and yet another 10 subforums for repair shops. So much klickwork

The idea was it would be MUCH easier to find the one you want by going to the appropriate area and then search from there. Cuts the looking down by 90%! Was also suggested by a number of people.

Originally Posted by Lars

I also do not think it is about competition. There are thousands of travel-related sites out there. I use a number of them but always come back to HU. Where do I find the specific motorbike-related info on wikitravel or somebody who travelled that particular country/ before and who is willing to confirm that this trip is doable...

I would think it is just about presentation and giving people a way of finding relevant info easily.

ANY and all suggestions are always listened to!

However I get lots of:

"it's hard to find information"

but very little:

"here is what you need to do to make it easier
1.
2.
3. "

In the meantime, the real problem comes down to we don't have a vast team of expert people inputting nice solid clean information in a standardized format - it's all coming in from all over the place with most of it in various posts on the HUBB and in Travellers Stories and the ezine.

We have a new search engine in progress for the entire site that will hopefully make it easier to find stuff - AND OR and NEAR etc boolean arguments will help a lot.

We've also looked at full wikis - and come to the conclusion that it;s just yet another way of doing the same thing - and trying to keep the HUBB and a Wiki will just split the info too much into two incompatible formats.

We're working on a new setup for a lot of wiki style information presentation, hopefully fully running in the next few weeks. There will be a place to input whatever, that anyone can create, a regular use editable web page, and comments go in a specific linked thread in the HUBB. So you can look on the HUBB and find a subject of interest, (the first post has a link to the info page,) OR go the section for the info and read all the information and view update comments on the HUBB page.

So for now:

1. Better search is in progress
2. Wiki style info input is coming.
3. Left menu is in constant flux as old static pages are updated to new system. A "rethink" of the left menu is on the cards - well actually I'm CONSTANTLY trying to rethink it but haven't come up with better - nor has anyone else. FEEL FREE to suggest a re-order / consolidation/ change - but remember the wide range of needs we have to cater to - newbies who just heard about Charlie and Ewan for the first time, hard core adventure travellers on the road for 5 years, and everyone in between, including the armchair traveller who will never go anywhere but likes to read about it!

See the intro for an idea what I mean and how it all works in theory.

A major change to the look and feel of the entire site is NOT possible at this time. When the whole site is on the new systems, it will be relatively straightforward to make changes quickly - at the moment it would take months of solid work for a couple of people to do as simple a thing as move the menu from the left to the bottom, or to a horizontal bar at the top etc on the whole site. We STILL have hundreds of pages to upgrade to the new system, (Drupal) and the blogs aren't even started.

So for now it's incremental stuff, with major redesign at least a year away.

Hope that helps a little - as always, ideas appreciated!

thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by Walkabout

It's just a matter of moderation Steve: the moderators will sort it out in other words.

The poll is strange though: for a long time it stood as "evens", at something like 10-10 or 12-12, now it is 19- something in favour of the "bar", now that the bar is established in any case.
A case of "reinforcing success"?

I am not sure the Bar will have the desired effect. It has not really empowered the moderator’s just dumming the HUBB down as far as I can see. There are loads of web sites were people can go and chat why do we need one? It would appear the moderators could not contain the rubbish being posted and trying to be inclusive came up with the bar.
What about going the other way, and making a charge for extra privileges on the HUBB. The majority of the Usual Suspects haven’t paid anything towards HU. A subscription charge in return for access to some areas would weed out some I am sure and give power to the moderators.

Steve

[ozzydakar]

Originally Posted by Martynbiker

12 bikes @ 390 quid each is 4,680 quid, a good profit being made by BikeTruck. A house move to spain is only about 2.400.......
so you and 12 others are also too chicken to ride in the cold!

Tim, each to their own, DON'T TAKE OFFENCE AT MY COMMENTS, PLEASE, I rode 365 days a Year in the UK,without heated vests and only 'discovered' heated grips the last year I was in the UK.
Riding in the Cold, it isn't for everyone I know,but you are missing out on some great scenery.... thought I will admit, the 'Picos de Europa' would be a little nippy about now!

Come back to Spain on a your Honda when the weather is good ( leave the Lardy BMW 1200 behind, although im sure you can pick it up unaided, cant you?) and you will be able have some of the BEST off road riding in europe.( pyrenees excepted of course)

Martyn

talk is cheep , I used bike truck.com to go to morroco on that trip and saved a lot of cash and wasted time traveling in dull spain and france , get real

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by SteveAttwood

I am not sure the Bar will have the desired effect. It has not really empowered the moderator’s just dumming the HUBB down as far as I can see. There are loads of web sites were people can go and chat why do we need one? It would appear the moderators could not contain the rubbish being posted and trying to be inclusive came up with the bar.
What about going the other way, and making a charge for extra privileges on the HUBB. The majority of the Usual Suspects haven’t paid anything towards HU. A subscription charge in return for access to some areas would weed out some I am sure and give power to the moderators.

Steve

Can't disagree with most of that Steve: you and I were among those who voted against, but it is here - not the end of the world in any case.
After an initial "spurt" in the first few days, the bar forum has gone fairly quiet as it happens.

One thing I am sure about: the HU webpage has to develop constantly and change along the way:-

Old (Chinese?) proverb: to stand still is to go backwards.

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Can't disagree with most of that Steve: you and I were among those who voted against, but it is here - not the end of the world in any case.
After an initial "spurt" in the first few days, the bar forum has gone fairly quiet as it happens.

One thing I am sure about: the HU webpage has to develop constantly and change along the way:-

Old (Chinese?) proverb: to stand still is to go backwards.

Dave,
I don't think I oppose change for the sake of it, the Bar in it self is no bad thing. At the moment it has been tainted in the way it has evolved, I guess that will dissolve with time.

The problem posts appear to have drop off big time for the moment, it could be the hubbers got the message or could be the Moderated Users Group System (MUGS) suppressing the enthusiasm for Posts Requiring Approval To Spam (PRATS)

I am pro the changes and want them to work.

Steve