svenpwrenn,

Sorry, no advice - just to let you know that I'll be trying China in 2007. Probably from Mongolia but maybe Kazakstan. Like you I don't really want a guide if I can help it. So if all else fails I will just rock up at the border and wing with as much official paperwork as I can find. But in the mean time I have about 18 months to try to find the cheapest official way in. Watch this space. Mind you, I was intending to leave China and enter Vietnam. But it would seem that Vietnam is even harder than China to get into with a bike. Ultimately, if you don't ask, you don't get and anyway if they don't let us in we can always ship out of Ulaanbaatar.

Hmmm... if no Vietnam, Laos or North Korea?

Mmmm. yeah, that will be my last measure. if i cant get through with a bike. I will leave it behind or get it shipped out of uulam and carry on the rest of the way on foot/train. hitch hike etc... Lets keep each other updated on our progress. At the moment I have just contacted the Chinese embasy with all the details of my trip, see if i can get them on my side at all.

Some expats in China claim that carrying a Carnet would allow to bring a bike into China. I think it's just a fantasy, but would be curious if anyone can confirm it.

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From Georgia to the Stans and then through russia or china to south east asia 2014 on Honda Africa Twin.

G'Day,

give me the details of one PRC bike owner sucessfully importing a bike or bringing a bike into China with a Carnet.

now of many people who tried to enter PRC with Carnets, no one suceeded to my knowledge....

the only possible "cheap" way is bribing your way into PRC or smuggle the bike somehow. not encouraging the illegal ways at all and you could end up with serious other problems.....

Seasons Greetings!

Best Regards,
Butchman

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

Iv seen all your posts butchman, and I cant help but feel you are realy negative about this. You are not helping anyone, and all u seem to do is promot ur bike tours. why dont u try to keep a bit of a opened mind. I know getting into china is difficult, but nothing is impossible. some people have made it there, and I am currently in a ongoing discusion with the chinese embasy in england to try and get there help.

Yeah mate I aggree with your comment, I have spoken with quite a few people that have manged to get into China and had no problems once in there, but I have only ever heard of bad rumours off bad things happening once you enter PRC, never a true 'bad' story, Butchman you never encourage anyone mate and try to spell out that it is impossible but people do it and have alot of fun at the same time.

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www.hardwayhome.blogspot.com

G'Day,

bike tours? sorry to dissapoint you but not involved in any commercial bike tour business. we are a group of bikers living and working in China (Shanghai), myself since 1989 in China.

yes, keeping a very open mind and we arrange our own club tours in China among our Shanghai group of 15 bike owners.

only posting the hard truth, you have to face the hard facts, its nearly impossible to enter China. nobody of our group has any interest to assist in any way with bike import into PRC. too much hassle and miles of "Red Tape in PRC" and we are all involved in different business (nothing bike / travel industry related).

for your info, we had again a great last ride of the year (3 days) recently in Beijing with mates: http://tinyurl.com/9lcfx

just sorting through pics of july 2005 Lanzhou --Lhasa-- Mt.Everest Base Camp (China) three week ride and will upload them in the future.

good luck with your PRC Embassy negotiatons and our ways might cross in PRC one day.... its a small world....

Seasons Greetings!

Best Regards, Seeya in the Pub or on the road....
Butchman

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

G'Day,

come over to China and enjoy the country.... thats what you want to hear? no worries!

having a lot of fun in China? you bet... again no worries! once again met crazy dutch guy Sjaak in Beijing going around the world on his Yamaha R1, check: http://www.sjaaklucassen.nl and some detailed pics of his Yamaha while in Beijing: http://tinyurl.com/9lcfx

you might be able to get a ride with world famous Helge Pedersen: http://www.globeriders.com during there tours in / out of PRC:

http://www.globeriders.com/tours_mai...rs_gsr07.shtml
http://www.globeriders.com/tours_mai...rs_gwt06.shtml

Seasons Greetings!

Best Regards, Seeya in the Pub or on the road....
Butchman



[This message has been edited by butchman (edited 23 December 2005).]

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

Butch probably is negative & rightly so.
Most = 99%? of people don't do it or get into China.
It’s generally agreed that you can’t just enter as you please on your own. “We all” know that.
But if you want to pay big bucks & sign up with a guide & tour group, then yes it is open.
What would you prefer Butch to say? He simply states the facts, from experience.

Agreed that there are individuals who have succeeded. But they would be the first to acknowledge that they were lucky & their success was probably a one-off at that particular border crossing. You can probably count the recent success stories on your 2 hands.

Take the 30th November post by Goetz, the guy who originally started this particular thread “China is Open.”
Even he now apologizes & says “after reading the whole thread it seems we were very lucky in a way. Maybe the right theme for the topic would have been "Is China open?"
Our excuses to all the lads ´n´ lasses we might have led astray. “
So even good ol Goetz thinks that he may have lead some people up the garden path with his post.
In matters like this then, where lots of time (=money) is involved it’s probably best to err on the conservative side & be negative. That way you won’t be disappointed if you fail.
Should Butch go the other way & advise: “yep no worries mates” China is open. Its real easy now, just roll up at any remote border & you can sweet talk your way in with a little bit of patience & money.”
If he offered advice like that he’d really make some enemies & be totally despised. But by being negative & realistic he’s doing everyone a good service with his advice.

It’s funny how some people don’t want to take no for an answer & believe that the rules don’t apply to them, they know better than the locals as they are a (future) RTW rider.
It would be good if svenpwrenn kept everyone informed of his success at the Chinese embassy in England & pending entry into China, after 20 days of ongoing discussion he must have just about cracked it now & he will only have positive news.
Robborxv I reckon that the reason you don’t hear of too many true bad stories, only rumours, is that because most of them don’t want to talk about it.
Butch keep giving out the advice as you see it mate!
China is not open for every motorcyclist all the time at every border crossing.

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Keep The Power On
Davidfl

Well im affraid we will have to agree to disagree on this. I belive that with the right amount of time/effort/skilss anything is possible and no boredres are closed. I agree that it is difficult, and it is only fair that butchman should highlight the problems. however all he does is keep saying that it is impossible and nothing else. We have got the point now. so unless he has something else new to say that he shouldnt say anything. Even if only one person had made it into china that would have proved that it isnt imposible. The fact that a handfull have made it through, is very promising. I know he is a local of china, but china is a very big country and there are many locals out there. Having been to Hong - Kong, Macau and china Two years ago I know a large amount of locals. All of which understand the difficulties I will face but are still helping me. Sending letters in chinese to embasssys, explaining to me various regulations, and even giving me free hotel stays. So butchman, although ur expert knowledge is welcomed, unless you have anything new to say, then dont say it at all.

G'Day,

regret to dissapoint you once again, I am not a LOCAL as in Chinese Citizen.... never been... never will be....

Happy New Year and all the best with your future PRC travel plans!

Best Regards, Seeya in the pub or on the road....
Butch

ps; they had this TV program the other day.... the big police plan for 2006 is to get rid of all mopeds, scooter, bikes in Shanghai within the inner ring road!

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Somewhere down the road in China since '89 ~ along the route I've learned the hard way that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake....TBR

Just a couple of thoughts on this subject from someone who has riden through China on a bike...

We just rode through Western China (Xinjiang Province) from the Torugart Pass in Kyrgyzstan to the Khunjerab Pass in Pakistan. This was all done the "legal" way, with the Chinese driver's licence, Chinese registration and guide through a Chinese travel agency. These are the offical regulations for bringing a vehicle into China.

One thing to keep in mind is this...China is a modern country, their customs posts are all computerized and they all know the rules regarding the importation of vehicles. Additionally, the parts of China that most people want to ride through, Xinjiang Province, Tibet, etc, are very sensitive areas and visitors to these areas are under even more scrutiny.

Even if a handful of people have gotten their bikes into China, they are truly in the minority. Is it worth planning a big trip around something that has a small to non-existent chance of happening?

And what will you do when China refuses entry for your vehicle from the country you came from...you have already been stamped out of that country...if you had a single entry visa, how will you get back in??? This could put you in a real tough situation and China may very well impound your vehicle until you get things sorted out.

Of course, anything IS possible. People have won the lottery, been struck by lightning and lived, and gotten into China with their vehicle completely independently.

Just don't count on it. Its all about odds...

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Dave
www.mototrekker.com

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Dave McMillan
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/mcmillan/

I fully realise that China is a hard place to get into, however, I personally intend to head that way in 2007 and try my best to get in. Of course there is a pretty reasonable chance that I won't make pass the border post. Should that happen I will be shipping out of Ulaanbaatar. Good luck to everyone heading that way this year.

In my opinion the small border passes is more useful. You have more chances to get in the China from Kazakhstan(Druzhba) or from Russia (Zabaikalsk) than from Mongolia (Zamyn Uud) or Kirgizstan (Torugart). The Customs officers in small border passes see very few foreign travellers and often do not know what to do. Smile on your face and a small souvenir will be very useful there.

Alex

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RUBTSOVTRAVEL.COM

I'm thinking about trying it in 2007. I think with the Beijing Olympics coming up in 2008, China should open up.

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Random attempts have
been made at RTW on
a '65 Ducati 250cc

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Not Ted Simon since 1970!
http://nokilli.com/rtw