Martyn I dont deny your reasoning above except the last bit. You obviously know very little about the Peg vs BMW Funduro, as they are both made by Aprilia in the same production line so YES it is almost a BMW, or should I say the BMW is almost an Aprilia but twice the price.....

And What makes you think this chap with the XT doesnt know how to ride properly? He too was entitled to his opinion so infact you just completely contradicted yourself. Next time do your homework before posting!

__________________
Moto Guzzi California 1100i
Honda XR650R 2003

'Nothing is neither right nor wrong, but what thinking makes it so'

'Where is a desert when you need one?'

Yeah, Ok I contradicted myself on the opinion. point taken

Just because the bikes are made on the same production line in the same factory doesnt mean the Components are the same. Frame, forks, brakes, wheel rims, quality of the general parts etc... and in fact I do know something about them...
I used to live next door to a chap that owned one! ( Hiya Duncan if your reading this ) ,,,,,, the aprilia after sales and warranty is next to zero in comparison with BMW! many visits to the dealers and months in total without the Aprilia to sort out faults including..... 1. a front sprocket that came off as she was riding it ( the circlip fell off) and the replacement took a week to arrive,

2. the ignition switch failed twice,

3. he exhaust snapped,

4. the front brake switch failed,

5. it leaked Oil

6. the headgasket blew twice, cured by new studs i believe, all this on a BRAND NEW BIKE.

The BMW in its first year needed just a new rear brake light switch and a front fork oil seal. Done THE SAME DAY. Wollaston BMW in Northampton

The service Intervals for the BMW are 10,000 but the Aprilla are 6,000.... if they are the same engine WHY?

as for the XT reliability, sorry Dude, but if DONT labour them in high gears and change the oil regularly, keep the valves adjusted correctly they really wont ever break down much. there are many many XTs with over 100,000kms on em with NO rebuilds or big bills required.

Martyn

Fair enough, I agree with most of what you have said. The XT is World renowned for being reliable, always has been. some people are unlucky and have loads of things go wrong with their chosen bikes, no matter how reliable it is. I dont know this chap with the XT and neither do you, his experience may be the unlucky type, who knows.....Thats why I wouldnt comment in the way you did, just a thought.

just in direct reply to BMW vs Pegaso, the BM also had the same issues with the front sprocket with the same setup of a stupid circlip, until Aprilia made both of them with a retainer nut instead. the brakes were identical Brembo's, so were the Rims and Hubs. Mine is a '98 model and has never leaked a drop, although some had head gasket issues, likewise the BMW. The only difference in the engine was that Rotax did the 5 valve head for the Aprilia, and the four valve for the BMW, which meant the Aprilia leant towards the peformance side whilst BMW went for reliability, with the 5-valve chucking out 3 more horsepower it made a difference. Aprilia were trying this out as it was a relatively new type of single, thus the service intervals being different.

The exhausts were rubbish on the Peg, agreed as they rusted inside like you can't believe! The wiring looms were identical, despite slightly different lights etc. But at the end of the day both are italian bikes with Austrian engines. The Italians are notorious for their crap electrics. Luckily if most people knew, they could have taken their Peg to the BMW dealer and got 80% of the work done there instead. I have used two BMW dealerships along the way. Or even better get it serviced whilst touring in Italy.

Its six of one and half a dozen of the other, But they are so alike that anybody who says they are the same bike with a different body in my view is talking sense. Bmw did a better job advertising as they always do, thus the reason for the BMW being dearer now if you want one. Thats all gone out the window since BMW opened a factory purpose built for the newer F650 GS.

__________________
Moto Guzzi California 1100i
Honda XR650R 2003

'Nothing is neither right nor wrong, but what thinking makes it so'

'Where is a desert when you need one?'

And your right, maybe I did slate the dude off a tad too much. apologies to all around for that one, OK
I still cant understand though...... 3Bhp more on the Peg than the Beemer and the service interval is 10,000 as opposed to 6,000.
doesnt make sense really does it?

also if they are made in the same factory why do the Peg exhausts rot so fast and the Beemer ones dont? I think the answer MUST lie in the quality of the components, components that 'look' similar yet perform quite differently.

I have seen 'fake' Billet 6 pot caliper brakes that look exactly like the real thing yet when fitted to a bike actually performed WORSE than the standard brakes did. the packaging the everything looked right. they were not right though. Maybe it is the same with some of the components on the peg?

as for Italian Electrics..Please no, otherwise we are gonna open up a whole can of worms . ( I remember spending 6 freezing cold nights in my friend Charlies Garage trying to fault find on a T3? Californian Guzzi.. Nightmare!!!)

Martyn

Yeah I must say I have yet to find much info on the exhausts of the two. The Beamer used a totally stainless system whilst Aprilia went for a crappy steel system. It may be that the exhausts were infact not put on the Beamer by Aprilia but rather by another factory afterwards, but thats only speculation. The BMW was a more expensive bike new so I guess they could afford to have a better exhaust.

The SI may also be because BMW were trying to invent a 'new' class of bike with this Funduro, marketed as an 'adventure tourer' to basically make a road legal Dakar Rally type bike powered by a single, which implies reliability to the max. So they perhaps felt if they had an SI anything less than 10 000 it would put potential buyers off, once again speculation. Obviously they were not really inventing a new class, as the Peg and a few other bikes were made long before the F650, they were merely doing what BMW do best, sell vehicles. As far as the engine though, They were Rotax engines delivered to Aprilia already built with the two variants.

The only things that were significantly different were the front forks, the frame was steel on the BMW but alloy on the Peg and the rear subframe was different but only slightly. and then the plastics. Swingarm was the same. But as regards to 'fake' parts, none were used on either. they had single piston Brembo brakes, and a flip through Ebay will show you their pads are identical too. The wheels and hubs were identical as well as bearings and the entire electrical system from the regulators to the sender units was identical. the engines were also identical and once you take the clutch cover where it says the brand off, behind they both had 'made in austria' printed in the same places (ie. Rotax). It all boils down to BMW using Aprilias expertise to manufacture a bike for them under license, as they had already established a name in big single trail bikes with the Peg Mk1 and 2. Bmw obviously kept this quiet though although a lot of the parts like the mirrors clearly had 'made in Italy' on them as well as the instrument guages.

Yeah Electrics are something the Italians have never got good at unfortunately. They always seem to forget the basic and try make things complicated where they dont need to. I have on many occassions whilst on a dead flat road in the middle of no where, having turned the bike off to rest or get fuel, thought that as soon as I got home I would rip out the electrics and install a modified Honda system, as she just refused to send power to the starter motor!

__________________
Moto Guzzi California 1100i
Honda XR650R 2003

'Nothing is neither right nor wrong, but what thinking makes it so'

'Where is a desert when you need one?'

Charlie ended up doing a COMPLETE rewire of the bike using a Honda CB250N Rectifier and Honda CB250N Switchgear! I basically had enough after 6 days of being frozen, and in the summer he decided to rewire.....funny thing is it now runs better than ever, no misfires in the wet, starts first time, every time, the battery actually charges, and has for the last i think 8 or 9 years with not one electrical fault.

Martyn

hmmmm, you make it sound an even more attractive proposition to rewire the beast, maybe one day. Italian bikes are like italian women: fun, attractive and full of energy......but unreliable and moody! But im the kind of guy who defends it to the hills and resist changing over to japanese adventure tourers like the plague......although I secretly admit the Hondas I have had before were quietly fantastic!

__________________
Moto Guzzi California 1100i
Honda XR650R 2003

'Nothing is neither right nor wrong, but what thinking makes it so'

'Where is a desert when you need one?'