I try to keep two bike going most of the time. Both are a compromise, one is used as a trail bike/adventure bike the other is a tourer/adventure bike. At the moment the trail bike is the new bike the tourer is ancient and I'm thinking of getting a new touring bike and older trail bike.

The new bike will almost certainly be run on TKC 80s or similar but will need to cruise happily at 90+mph two up with luggage (decent wind protection) and be capable of extended European tours (3 months or more). At the other end of the spectrum it should be capable of spending a week exploring trails in the Pyrenees. When I say new, it will probably be less than 2 years old. Purchase price is not an issue but good reliability, spares back up, dealer network and reasonably priced servicing are all important factors. Also, I don't want to have to fit loads of aftermarket stuff to make it fit for purpose.

For the sake of this discussion I have no predjudice against any particular marque, so which bike best fits the above spec.?

Get hold of a copy of what bike magazine or similar, make a list of all the dual sport bikes and go ride any or all that catch your eye - the only way you'll know for sure is to ride for yourself.

My personal recommendation = KTM 950/990 ADVENTURE. It ticks all your riding requirements.
It comes from the factory ready to ride trails and is FUN.

Servicing/parts aint cheap, but probably not expensive compared to any other modern trailie.

Reliability: Not renowned for it, but most things that can go wrong have been so well documented on ADVrider that you can work out when to do pre-emptive maintainence beore things fail on you.

Go for one with a few thousand miles on it that has had all the factory recalls/updates done under warranty (there were lots). If checking one out, phone a nice KTM dealer, give them the Reg number and with some persusasion they'll give you a detailed history of the bike.

I had dismissed the KTM when I was choosing 'which bike' because I got scared of the reputation for poor reliability, but I went for a test ride on a whim and loved it. You could have a go on one and see for yourself.....

I'd get the new Yamaha XTZ1200 Tenere - sounds right up your street.

Thanks for the replies.

The KTM is top of the list but have been put off by reports of poor reliability, cost of parts and very thin (competent) dealer network in places. Also passenger comfort may be an issue but we've yet to test ride one two up. The major plus is that it uses good quality brakes and suspension and the fueling seems to be sorted now. I currently have a 690E which is OK.

The 1200 Tenere looks good but, as ever, I would be concerned that a lot of the original components would start to clap out at a fairly early stage. Need to go and test ride one.

I didn't say in the first post, but one of the main reasons for the new bike is that I'm hoping to have the time to put a lot of miles on it over the next couple of years so I don't want something that is always needing sevicing/parts.

basically it boils down to if its not reliable and long living, its not worth crap isnt it?

I would also consider looking at the Suzuki V strom 650 and 1000's as well. as I understand, with decent tires, those are pretty friendly at higher speeds, and able to handle going off the beaten track. havent seen many complaints, but I never looked into suzuki much as I'm just not big on owning their stuff.

You must be mixing the new Yamaha Tenere' up with BMW or KTM. The Yamaha Ten 1200 may be heavy and expensive but you won't be having any parts clapping out on you any time soon. If nothing else it will be reliable and last a long time. If you leave it out in Winter or ride on Salted roads ... well then .... you're screwed.

When you say "trail" riding in the Pyrennes, the guys I saw riding there were on Trials bikes. No GS, KTM 990 or Yam Tenere' 1200 is going anywhere near the trails I saw. Super knarly stuff. Perhaps you know easier routes?

Fire roads, sure, no problem, even mild two track OK. But a real trail could be a challenge, especially two up. I would bet the Yamaha could go two years with NO SERVICE. (not ideal, but it won't care)

The other bike to consider is the BMW F800GS. Fit a better seat and should be OK. Very easy to ride in mild off road conditions. I rode the F800GS and a NEW R1200GS side by side. The F800 is SO MUCH nicer off road. Of course you have to deal with usual BMW failures but not many on the F800. A really nice bike, IMO.

I'm looking for a replacement for my R100GS. We've used this bike for very long distance touring 2 up and it handles the sort of trail riding I expect it to. However, it's now getting on a bit so I'm looking for something with more reliability and, at least for a while, something that doesn't have a never ending list of 'maintenance to do' issues. The GS's shortcomings have always been in the touring part of the compromise - Motorway/A road cruising speed is a bit limited, wind protection is also a bit limited, brakes are feeble by modern standards and the handling on the road is slow and ponderous compared to more modern bikes.

So I tried an 1150GS for 3 years but never really liked it - dangerously heavy off road, didn't like the hot weather and very uncomfortable.

Of course, I could make some improvements to the above bikes, especially the R100GS but it's still 20 years old. I did make some changes to the 1150 but still never got to like it.

The 21" front wheel could be a bit of an issue. It is part of the reason the R100GS is ponderous on the road and it definately felt odd on the F800GS I rode but the 690 enduro handles very well on the road, so perhaps it's more to do with geometry than wheel size.

KTM adventure is still looking like the best option although far from perfect. Would be interested in any feedback on the Stelvio and Multistrada but I think the dealers are even thinner on the ground than KTM dealers.

Just my view on things but it seems to me that KTM comes with good quality rebuidable suspension, good brakes and is generally put together using good quality parts (except wheel rims?). You pay for the quality components. BMW use relatively poor quality parts but charge a lot for the finished product. Other manufacturers build their bikes down to a price and it's generally accepted that aftermarket parts can be a substantial improvement over the OE.

[quote=Mickey D;296778]You must be mixing the new Yamaha Tenere' up with BMW or KTM. The Yamaha Ten 1200 may be heavy and expensive but you won't be having any parts clapping out on you any time soon. If nothing else it will be reliable and last a long time.

Are you from the future?

Just where in Europe do you intend running extended trips at 90mph?
You may return with a confiscated licence as a souvenir.

Indeed, 1200 Tenere sounds like it might fit the bill.

I think there are still Autobahns with no speed restrictions, however, it's just a requirement doesn't mean that it will be used like that.

Suzukis are worth investigating, is there a ready to go tourer like the Tenere? I've only ever owned one, an SP400 in 1982 which didn't do much to endear me to them.

Any KTM Adventure owners in other European countries who can tell me what the dealer service is like. I don't have that much faith in my local KTM dealer.

Get a new 660Z Tenere and slow down a bit...?

The 660 Tenere will do all you want [so much so that you may find you only need one bike] and be far less of a handful off-road than a big twin...

If you're having to go 90+mph, you've chosen the wrong road...











J x

Those are awesome rides. Thanks for posting the pics.

Cheers.

Yes, there are a few in Germany, but that is only one out of about 45 countries in the EEC afaik nowhere else.. and running up and down autobahns is not my idea of bike riding.

In France and UK and most of Europe anything not dual carriageway has a 56mph limit. Even the french Peages are mostly 80mph limit, 70 in the UK.

For two up, the Suzuki DL1000 is very comfortable and can handle off highway very well, off road less well due to low clearance (19" front). Good value, pretty reliable and easy enough to work on that as long as you have any mechanical interest you can do a lot of the work yourself which keeps the running costs low.

Not sure if any of the larger bikes will fit your bill for real offroading though as you mentioned that you couldn't imagine taking a 1200GS offroad, so could be doubtful that you would be happier taking a 1200 Tenere or a DL1000 or the Multistrada for that matter. Best of luck and post some photos when you decide.