My gearbox (R80) is never opened, mileage 202kkm.

There is one puddle of oil in my garage – under my Yamaha but it’s still a funny bike!

These posts also crack me up, they really do.

One of the things I greatly admire in the people who are about set off on their first journey is that they are open minded, receptive to input and don't carry all the biases that the rest of the crusty old crowd do. We could all do a little better at retaining this trait.

It is natural to form a bond with a brand, especially if it carries you through some tough places and saves your bacon more than a few times. Afterwards, it is through these rose colored glasses that we forever view the brand, and sometimes the model.

To group all the various models of any manufacturer, for all the decades of production, under one heading is pretty much meaningless. So to say that BMW makes reliable bikes is an incredible, and incorrect generalization. Even more incorrect is to lump all "japanese" bikes into one category and make the same generalization. I'm sure that any one of those companies, for example Honda with their incredibly long and deep history, would take great exception to being told that they are no different from Yamaha. You have to look at the make and the model and the year. From there, you can begin to draw some meaningful comparisions.


To the original poster, if you go with the Tenere, it would be an excellent choice. In reality, you would be hard pressed to make a poor choice with modern bikes. In fact I would say that any person contemplating a long trip spend a little time on research, pick any one of the common choices of bikes, and then spend a lot of time honing your skills. For every hour you spend faffing on the interenet, that is an hour that you could be spending learning how to ride a bike in various conditions, fully loaded and offroad. You can't practice a lot of those skills enough, many things happen in a split second and you have to have imbeded those skills and keep them practiced so that when the Egyptian truck driver comes hurtling at you at night with his lights off, you react appropriately and save your skin.

In addition, the other area to spend more time on is the mechanics of your bike once you buy it. I can't tell you how many people that I met that professed that they secretly feared the black box of mechanics. We all do to some extent, but you should mess around with your bike enough so that your heart doesn't stop everytime it drips a bit of oil or sputters a bit. Some, have been fearful enough that prior to the trip, they have never even have fixed a flat tire.

Additional random comment, I would say that last year the most common touring bike I saw in Africa was a KTM. Maybe ten or twenty years ago most bikes were a BMW but there are so many good bikes from so many manufacturers that this has been diluted. BMW will regain it's dominant position in the adventure touring segment with the 800GS, which is great because they are one of the few companies that is actually dedicated to serving this segment, but the days of almost exclusive single brand domination are over due to the evolution of the industry.

I've owned 2 and I highly recommend 2 cylinder BMW for its superb reliability IMO For solo riding they maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but if you often do 2-up riding as well, then they're among the best bikes available.

1100 models from '97-'99 that have all the teething problems sorted and probably among the most reliable BMWs ever.

My last one '98 R1100GS was 60Kkm before crashed. Current one is 80Kkm, also '98 R1100GS. Not a single problem. And the conditions where I live are third-world - around half of the roads are gravel, all secondary tar roads will vibrate your teeth off, only the very main highways are torelable for any western-world rider.

I ride around half of my mileage in potholed-corrugated gravel roads. And in those particular conditions I've found (in biker-mythological terms: surprisingly) it's the jap bikes that start show their weak spots while my BMW goes on without any trouble or a sign of weakness. At least my jap did, it started to fell apart less than 50Kkm before I quickly sold it. (Did I mentioned it was Suzuki?)

Just some examples from my pictures. You'll get:

Snow:





Highspeed dirt:







The best stability spot is between 120-140kph and engine just sings around calm 4Krpm.


Rocks:



Sand:

Even with massive 41 litres of fuel on board the 1100cc boxer has amazing agility in the sand and can keep up with lightweight singles while it's a superior tourer on hard-surfaced roads by far.




Now with smaller 32 litre tank.




It'll go anywhere where rider tells it to go.


While Suzukis need pushing.

Some other typical roads, mix of all - sand, gravel etc:


In those conditions my jap bikes haven't proven to be exacly reliable, even when not counting the mythical-reliability as they supposed to be very reliable bikes in "common bikers-mythology" Also some of my friends having jap bikes I see surprisingly lot of problems in the conditions we have here if boys take their toys to real harsh conditions offroad.

Bikes maybe last long on the US and western-europe's smooth roads, but here things tend to play out differently.

So from my experiences, I'm not particulary a believer of jap bike's reliability myth. Well it's not bad, it's sufficient, they're made by man afterall thus they can't be perfect like any other bike, but still they're nowhere close to the reliability level as most of bikers are "made to believe" or assume they are.

Just my 2c.

Hope this explains my point of view.

Margus

Most all the negative feedback about BMW comes from actual owners of the bikes who have become feed up.

Also from dealers, who deal with BMW every day and know the dark secrets. Go to any big BMW rally and talk to owners .... then you learn about a few of these "secret" problems that officially BMW claim do not exist. This is not new, been going on for years and years and is very well documented.

BMW has a whole promotion industry based around long distance riding, a manufactured mythology of Adventure combined with the delusion of superiority. This master race allusion tends to upset some people. I just can't imagine why?

The long distance element is a keystone of their corporate culture. Go to any BMW rally, they give awards to longest distance and such. They have had BMW club publications for 40 years promoting the bike and its long distance heroics. BMW gmbh. often sponser many of these publications and clubs.

Check out the RA (BMW riders Association) or the big one, BMW MOA (BMW owners of America) both these clubs are huge and each have a slick, well produced monthly magazine. Big money mixed with a nearly super nationalist zeal for all things BMW.

The Japanese don't do much of this sort of flag waving Horse shit. Honda has a couple Gold Wing type rallies each year but that is about it. Japanese efforts go a different direction .... and purposely so. They let sales numbers and race wins do the talking.

The big four decided long ago to leave BMW alone and not go in direct competition with them. They realize the world and motorcycle industry need small companies like BMW and KTM and Husaberg to keep things interesting and foster innovation.

This is why Yamaha bailed out Ducati in the 80's and why other Italian marks have miraculously risen from the ashes with untraceable money from banks who have no money to lend but somehow came up with some to revive companies like Benelli, MV Agusta, Laverda (now gone), Moto Morini and a few others. Am I saying this is all Japanese money? No, but some of it is. A lot of it is Chinese money, like Benelli. Now owned 100% by Chinese moto company. But of course the Chinese have a different motivation, and one not nearly so benevolent. $$$$$$$

Where do you want to start? How about the Honda CB360? No one crowed about this bike or got a hard on doing big miles, but these bikes were around for decades, in the millions, quietly running on for years, without a dime spent on maintenance.

Many unsung stories beyond that here in the USA. Big country, lots of disposable income. Dozens of Jap twins have done millions of trouble free miles. But so what? Most riders don't care. They just ride it.

Gold Wings probably hold most "records" for any longevity contest you want to invent. But nobody really gives a crap about that sort of BS, only the BMW Hard-Ons care about that.

More recently regards twins? the Suzuki Vstrom's both are doing big miles and most importantly NOT having problems. Anytime you would like to compare dealer visits over a 3 or 4 year period between any BMW twin and any Vstrom, well, be my guest. Of course, you must also look at the Africa Twin and Trans Alp Hondas. Big miles, low maintenance examples of both can be found still on the road.

And Margus, you said :
"has any jap big-traile twin has done similar mileage without any breakdown or major work ..."

Would not this statement, by definition, leave BMW OUT! ?? Older BMW's need lots of maintenance and component replacement. Breakdown's? Uh, yes, indeed! At least most of the examples you see still on the road have been rebuilt and fixed many times over. So lets figure in another element here: Nostalgia. BMW guys tend to be a nostalgic lot who enjoy putting cash into an old, heavy outdated heap of crap. Fine. More power to them. But if you're looking for problems start here:

Shall we look specifically at BMW electrics?


That's funny Margus! You give us an official BMW web site reporting on a "Cross country' race in GERMANY. :confused1: I've never heard of this series. Is it run on pavement? In Germany NO off road "Cross Country" races are allowed, no? !Verboten! Is this an FIM backed series?

Also, never heard of any of the other riders, except Kriss who is a pro out Cherry Picking for BMW. A ringer.

Hey Margus, lets look at some real races now ... that have real competition.
Show me where BMW is in the results for the ISDE enduro's the last ten years and lets see how many BMW turn up in the results here. :confused1:

Now lets broaden the view a bit and check out the World Enduro series results from last 5 years or so. Now check out: World FIM Motocross series, USA AMA Super Cross, AMA GNCC series, AMA enduro series and AMA outdoor motocross series, Baja / SCORE :1000, 250, or 500.

Any BMW's shown there? (somebody did enter a twin in one of the Baja races!)
Now, should we begin with road racing? Lets compare world championships, shall we? In fact, pick any race series world wide. How many times does BMW appear?

Yes, BMW are now making a dirt race bike. And YES, it is on a fast development track and will compete. So lets wait (we've waited 40 years already) and see if they can match results from years ago in ISDE where they actually did OK ..... that was in the 50's, no?. My guess is they will need 5 years to show any sort of consistent results in a variety of legit race series world wide. This plus lots of money, the best riders and some luck.

BMW are new at this and have there own "superior" ideas about how to build a good dirt bike. Let's see how it goes, shall we? And by the way, what happened to their World Super Bike effort this year? They said they would be ready to win, but now have put it off yet again for another year???

Sorry Margus, no one takes BMW seriously. Zero credibility in any race environment. This is just the reality, not hyperbole and nothing at all against folks who like to ride the bikes.
They are beautiful bikes ... just not for everyone.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

To Pimpyoda:
I say get out there and test ride. Its the only way to know what bike you actually like. Spec sheets are a salesman's best friend and the bane of any potential owner as they really cloud your judgement.

Also don't be influenced by the BM bashing brigade. I think its a shame that, on a site where one is supposed to promote open-mindedness, there is so much prejudice toward a badge, usually resulting from the marketing strategies of a given manufacturer and, it seems to me, based only on "impressions" or one experience!

Some jap bikes are good, some German bikes are good. I think that reliability is a pretty subjective thing. I say this having owned many bikes: Jap, German and now even Russian!!

Yes, Jap engineering is relialbe, but typically not so many jap bikes reach mega miles. They cost less, but re-sell for less. Mechnically, they may be sound, but cosmetically they suffer. Honda are excellent, but while some might denegrade BM for this fault or that, I find it extraordinary that after all these years Honda still have the same basic faults on some of their bikes: reg-rectifier, or fuel pump!!
Arguably, lasting finish is only really comendable on Honda and BMs in my opinion.

Now I do not think that BMs are any less reliable. On the contrary, the one I owned never really missed a beat (R1150GS) I would not necessarily buy a new 1200 series, but then I would never buy a new bike ever again after loosing 35% on my new Suzuki in the first year, back in 2000.

Why is it that a huge majority of Governments in the world supply their police with BMs or Hondas? They're not just in it for the marketing.

Bottom line if anyone tells you "all blah-blahs are bad, all blah-blahs are good", take their advice with a very big pinch of salt: the world is not that black and white and it does not reek of an objective opinion.

You don't even have to go for an off-roader (although some off-road ability is recommended!). I met people riding all sorts including Yamaha Diversion 900s, and a Harly Road King type: all going full off-road!!

Get out there and try a few bikes. See which are comfortable, see which have a decent tank range, see which the least modification or which have the easiest tyre sizes to find etc, but don't believe all the hype you hear.
If you fancy a challenge: do it on one like mine!! Ural Motorcycles Europe | Sportsman

On an aside, I don't recall any manufacturers really having a viable RTW option when certain famous people were choosing bikes for their TV program RTW trip, so its not surpirsing they went for BMs: the only other manufacturer (KTM) did not even have faith in their own bikes to finish the trip!!! Certainly none of the Jap manufacturers had a full-on RTW option to pitch, only road-biased wannabees.

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

[quote=
Bikes maybe last long on the US and western-europe's smooth roads, but here things tend to play out differently.

Just my 2c.

Hope this explains my point of view.

Margus[/quote]



Hi Margus,

Lol, I'll let you guys continue to argue amongst yourselves but I wanted to first comment on the great pics, looks like some awesome riding.

I do have to politely and kindly suggest though that if you ever get the chance, you are welcome to come over to an often forgotten country called Canada. Looks like you have great fun on the roads in Estonia, and if that is the riding that you get in the 45,000 square kms in Estonia, imagine what you can get in our little 10,000,000 square kms. Much of the northern geography would be familiar to you and remind you a bit of home and the surrounding countries that you ride in.

As you know though, the northern weather is tough on roads so there is plenty of fun stuff to ride. In fact, with all the old logging roads, mining roads, exploration trails, it's would be impossible to ride it all, and the best roads aren't actually roads at all, they're trails at best. And since we don't have many people, there are only a few smooth, main roads inking everything together.

It is indeed tough on bikes, all bikes. Our little experiment shows that they all break down eventually, and even quicker if you ride them upside down.

I know that you are trying to match some perhaps overly strong statements with counter arguements of your own, but it certainly isn't a widely held view here that there are performance or reliability issues for motorcycles manufacturered in Japan, when those motorcycles are ridden under long and difficult conditions. It's perhaps too broad of a generalization to begin with, but in the end of the day, modern manufacturing techniques have resulted in most motorcycle brands being clustered at the high end of perfomance and reliability. Mostly the arguement is whether one model is marginally more reliable than another, not whether one is reliable or not.

Look forward to seeing you over here, we'll even lend you the beemer so that you won't get bribed in the future by a photo of you sitting on a Japanese bike.

To the original poster, if you go with the Tenere, it would be an excellent choice. In reality, you would be hard pressed to make a poor choice with modern bikes. In fact I would say that any person contemplating a long trip spend a little time on research, pick any one of the common choices of bikes, and then spend a lot of time honing your skills. For every hour you spend faffing on the interenet, that is an hour that you could be spending learning how to ride a bike in various conditions, fully loaded and offroad. You can't practice a lot of those skills enough, many things happen in a split second and you have to have imbeded those skills and keep them practiced so that when the Egyptian truck driver comes hurtling at you at night with his lights off, you react appropriately and save your skin.

Well said MountainMan. I have been round the block and have been building up scramblers (as we use to call them in SAfrica) since the age of 16. The only problem i forsee is that I can take a 2stroke engine apart blindfolded and growing up movin to road bikes (and doing my bit for grey imports), I have always had someone else do the work.
I will def go do a mehanics course as this is essential to my travels. I'm blessed as I'll be driving to Cpt with my brother who has recently bought a Toyota Landcruiser VX Turbo. 96 Diesel. (he's so proud) This means I can stick as much spares as I like on his roof for when that dreaded time comes...breaking down.

I'm taking everything in and perhaps once I arrive after 5 months travelling through Eastern Europe and Africa I too will become an EVANGELIST for whichever bike I'm riding...

Thanks for all the advice!!! I'm really appreciate it!

If you are taking race pedigree and translating that into taking a brand seriously, I think you need to wake up. Winning races may be very impressive but it has nothing to do with day to day riding any more than race bikes have anything to do with day to day bikes. Take KTM. They make great race bikes, but their road bikes have been fraught with reliaiblity issues... Ditto for Ducati....

What do you care if a marque pitches itself as "superior"? Honda have been doing it for ages, compared to the other big jap 4....

BMW have a small portion of the market, they sell bikes and have been for decades. If they were no good, they would have gone out of business... You don't last on Marketing alone for 60 years or so: look at the MGs cars of the UK. If you make a crap product you can bluff it for a while, but not for that long. Yet they are still here making very good, everyday, real world bikes.

I would find your arguement far more plausibleif you claimed that BMs were no better than others, rather than claiming they are crap: they clearly are not.
I hope this is not because someone on a BM called you names once... feels like a vendetta!!

Whether they are any better than others is another story, but they certainly hold their own....

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

"impressions'? "one experience" ? I think many riders, including me, have more than "impressions" to go on. And far more than one experience to form an opinion.

The internet in now the new X factor for such things. It allows the exchange of information at a very rapid rate. BMW forums are their own worst enemy. Read them and weep my friend. ADV rider is another site where tens of thousands of BMW riders hang out. A great place to see all that goes wrong with BMW's. Not one or two my friend .... but many many examples.

Also lets not forget about industry studies and feedback compiled by organizations who specialize in looking at Motorcycle industry economic health .... that is, they keep track of how many warranty claims a specific manufacturer has to pay out and keep track of how many bikes have repeat problems, and track what systems are acting up. The OEM's use this valuable feedback to correct problems and to learn how much defects are costing them.

BMW do this as do all big OEM's. BMW now carefully guard this information since they continue to come last in reliability and are tops in warranty claims. The Japanese are not ashamed of their track record, but don't really flaunt it either. To give an overall picture, Japanese companies generally have about a 3% breakdown rate, BMW about 30%. These figures from there own data.

Groups like the MIC (motorcycle industry council) and publications like Dealer News, sometimes get credible feedback from within the industry and then can show who is doing well and who is not. This information has been available for decades. Armed with this stuff it's not hard to see the facts about reliability. In the UK, govt. consumer depts. do similar studies on the motorcycle industries.

See above! Statistics gathered about bike problems, warranty claims, Lemon Law buy backs are all public knowledge, are NOT subjective delusions! They are facts from the manufacturers themselves. And just because you don't have this in Estonia ... does not mean it does not exist. It does.

You are misinformed here my friend. KTM have plenty of faith in their bikes.
What they lacked faith in was Charley and Ewan themselves. They also thought the project would cost them a lot of money. Seems KTM felt they did not have the proper backing to actually make the trip.

Obviously, KTM misjudged things in some areas.
But in some ways you can see their point of view. Two actors, one never ridden dirt bikes, the other a novice at best.
The project was not presented to KTM in an organized way so KTM figured it could only make their bikes look bad as Ewan and Charley seemed like amateurs.

KTM worried tha when the newbie guys crashed and got hurt, KTM would look bad or be blamed. When these inexperienced guys had breakdowns because the bikes were not maintained, KTM, once again, would look bad. So to them, it was a No Win situation.

And really, anyone who thinks BMW looked good in the LONG WAY ROUND,
is not paying attention. The most telling scenes come when the boys were suffering through the mud in Mongolia. I liked the part when Claudio, the cameraman, gets on the 180cc Minsk (after the GS had broken down and then the welder fried the ECM) and starts raving about how nice and easy the bike is to ride and how wrong they were on the GS's (Of course it only lasted a week!)

But the shots of Ewan crying while trying to pick up the GS pigs in the mud tell the truth. Some inexperienced guys thought this was funny. Ha Ha.
But anyone who has been there, on an overweight, overloaded PIG can see the BMW was absolutely the wrong choice for this ride. Not to say the GS
is a bad bike, just not a dirt bike. A vstrom would have had the same problems. (except the breakdown part!)
If I were organizing that trip I would have put the boys on Tenere's , and let the frickin' support trucks carry spares, luggage and AN EXTRA BIKE!

A KTM or about any Jap dirt bike would have made the trip a better experience over all, IMO.


Patrick

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

That's some serious shit you're talking....

I wonder if we had to take our meaningfull/less babble to BMW and Honda if they would care to comment.

Anyone know anyone In Germany/Japan?

PS: Let's not forget I was only trying to decide what to ride to Cape Town... but I guess my life may well depend on it.

Such information may well exist, but I see nothing in you post saying it backs your points. I'd also be intereted to see what sort of mileage these bikes get. Cetainly the majority of BM riders I have known over the years as a courier, as a traveller and a general biker has been that of above average miles and brand loyalty. Now why is that, if they are so bad?


That is the reason they gave, but I think you'll find that KTM reliability, being a marque based on engines that are rebuilt before the next race, have a pretty bad record by modern standards, and they are only just starting to get to grips with this and that is why they backed out. With significant engine issues within 6 months of ownership being a regular would you have offered your bikes up for the slaughter? I think this is far more likely an explanation.

They had plenty of backing from other companies, too and if they had never finished the odds are the programme would never had been aired anyway, so not so much to loose after all.

Same old story.
I, certainly, have never said that a GS would perform like a CRF450 in the dirt. That does NOT make the GS a bad bike. And for all E & C's newbie overland mistakes about packing there is no way a "Jap dirt bike" on the market at the time of that programme would have stayed in one piece with all the crap they carried. Basically there was NO viable Japanese alternative at the time. As for the KTM option, I have far more doubts about a KTM surviving out there on 85 octane than the GS.

Bottom line, even if it was not as easy as gliding over the mud on a svelte 250 2-stroke, THEY STILL FINISHED on schedule, on GSs.

The same way that I, a complete novice at off-roading had a trouble free trip on my "PIG", two-up with a fully loaded weight of about 450kgs in Argentina, including about 450 miles of off-road. Considering its robust build, I'd say the GS is an astoudnig bike to take what it does, in its stride.

Some of it was hard work, but I can say it was hardest because of my inexperience: the bike just shrugged it all off.

By all means dislike BMs, but I find you attitude so rigid, I can well believe BMW winning every championship, and you'd still claim they are crap.

I dislike some brands compared to others, but its never absolute, so please, restore may faith and help me believe you points of view are at least a bit objective:
Tell me something you like about BMW bikes...

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

I am simply providing industry feedback. Goes to credibility. What this says is that BMW are last in reliability based on numbers of warranty claims filed repeat dealer visits for recurring problems, or Lemon Law buy backs.

You hear a lot of smack online hacking up BMW, this just puts it in perspective with numbers from a credible organization.

BMW riders do big miles on their bikes. This is well known.
But they are not the only ones. As stated, see Gold Wing, V-Strom and a few others over the years. And don't forget HD! But this has been brought up before too. It's also well known they spend about three times the money on service and maintenance than a typical Japanese bike owner.

Brand loyalty? I never said ALL BMW's had problems .... just about 30% to 50% on average since 1995. So that leaves a fair amount problem free .... Like Margus's bike ....that apparently does not even need fuel! Did you see him ride that deep sand! Wow, my hero!
Jeeesheesh! Two Estonians in one day!

Sadly, based on what I've seen, and following KTM since the 80's, I have to agree with everything you have said. And also agree that its' only recently they are getting better.
Like the GS, I like the bikes (I've owned a fee KTM's and ridden many)

BTW, I am in industry and write about and test bikes part time.


Yes, they did finish. And managed to turn the disability of the big bike into a positive. That is good film making!
I actually really liked the 12GS. Not so much the 1100 or 1150. I've ridden them both extensively. I just wouldn't own one. About one third of the guys I ride with own GS's, but they own other bikes too. The 12GS is a fun and capable bike, quite versatile in every way. But still, lots of stupid things still go wrong. Maybe you have been lucky with your BMW's?

Well, when they manage to win even ONE championship ... then we can talk. I like a lot of things about BMW, as said
above. But overall believe they are over rated, too expensive and not as reliable as they should be considering cost.

I'll do what I can! I've personally owned about 45 bikes since 1962 or so. I've tested dozens more. I've raced flat track, desert races and enduro and moto cross over the years. Plenty of time on the racetracks too. But mostly I'm a street rider.

I love all bikes. Read my review of the R12GS sometime to see me gushing on about it. But I am not afraid to point out faults. The Germans hate this. I've been to intro's and seen it. Its ugly. The Japanese have a very different style.

I've also talked to some very senior guys in the four Japanese companies and met the chief engineers and CEO at Ducati. The Japanese don't tell a "Gaijin" much, but still, until you've visited a Japanese factory in Japan .... well you just have to see how they operate. (I was at Yamaha) I've also been to Triumph, BMW (and Mercedes).

I try to be objective. But I also get paid not to lie or sugarcoat a problem, which is hard to do sometimes. I hate to pan a bike. Like the 620 Ducati Monster, Triumph Bonneville America, or the Guzzi California, or several Jap cruisers or early KTM four strokes or Yamaha's TDM 850, which I owned and still panned. When journalists get together and don't like a bike, a feeding frenzy ensues. Ugly. But mostly the published result is far far milder version. Advertising revenues, you understand.

Patrick

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Unlike me Warthog is native in English language and summed up everything well, straight to the point. Basically the same message I wanted to forward - european bikes are very reliable these days and every bike has problems, even Japanese bikes. And I also find it strange when someone tries distinctly to paint the world into black-and-white, by saying this is s*it and this is good. This is where I normaly get into arguing.

Looking all the discussions here also I now can clearly say Mollydog is just a BMW-hater, with no real data to back his sayings up (as always), only his "hunch": i.e. I've seen this and that, my riding friends etc scenarios where he gets his "reliable" data and figures.

While he hasn't owned any modern BMW himself. Ironic, isn't it?

Bollocks. With data taken from the thin-air. Where do you get your industry feedback? Are you the boss of consumer protection organisation? Details please!

Also complete false. My BMW has proven twice the cheaper to run than my japanese bikes thanks to it's long service interval, simplicity (dry clutch, shaft, oil-cooled). I hear the same tendency from other BMW riders. The cost may vary, but it's definitely not 3-times more expensive averagely!


Oh really? Why then all of your previous "BMW breakdown data" has been different in our previous discussions in various threads - do you have constantly changing numbers in your mind?


And another wrong fact - my bike takes 32 liters of fuel, haven't said anywhere it doesn't need fuel. Glad to be of help to be your hero



Wow, if I was the editor of the mag you write in and see how you, as a person, speciefically bash one brand around the forums I wouldn't let the articles go through seeing how radically anti-biased you are IMHO.

Maybe you should stick to writing thriller stories with random thoughts and emotions coming into your mind, with self-generated data. Apparently realistic and balanced things aren't your field.

Well OK me being as a regular everyday rider can be biased (and no doubt I am!) is maybe forgivable, but to be a biased bike mag writer (especially anti-type to one brand) to provide the message to wider audience, is it the right thing?



What happened now, trying to say a drop of positive about BMWs too in all that ocean of negative?


And so is the jap reliability over rated.

Price hasn't ever dictated reliability. Be it $50K customized HD with seized engine or a $50K limited-edition Honda with a broken camchain.



But you still haven't owned any modern BMW yourself in a long term to provide us the complete and realistic picture as a user. Changing bikes like socks don't get you far in understanding your bikes throughoutly. Especially in terms of reliability.


But you still lie. Why?

once the "Cardanshaft" splittered into pieces on my K100.
Every 10k KM the rear axle leaked all its oil (R1150). "Radialwellendichtring" the bill said.
The same R1150 had serious engine knocking probs. Couldn't be solved. Occured so often apparently that
bmw decided to introduce twin-spark from 2003 onwards... Bad luck for those with models '99-'02.

Two friends missed a motorcycle holiday respectively, because of a broken bmw gearbox (one R80, one R1150).

Another friend also needed a new R1150GS gearbox.

Unfortunately we trusted bmw, and didn't know the essential info that the only reliable bmw twin, is the R1100 built after '97.