You can't go wrong with a late 90's , early 2000's Japanese Enduro bike.

Their engines are usually 10-15 years old in foundation and they have had all their niggles well worked out of them. They have also been 'somewhat' modernised and updated. You'd have to be very unlucky or somewhat stupid to grind to a halt on one of those.

Then again.. We're back to that balance again.

If you want reliability, you usually HAVE TO sacrifice power and comfort. They don't really go together. The balance always tips one side or another.


If WW3 ever comes about and we're roaming around like Mad Max; you sure as hell won't see any BMW's, Multistradas and Triumph Explorers patrolling the streets with machine guns on them. They'll be relics. Failing as soon as the local dealers can't reset their adaptation values and fixing software fault after software fault.

The cool kids will be zipping around on Honda Dominators and old XT's... Probably with busty tanned Brazilian chicks on the back in their leather bikinis gripping a machete between their teeth.

I think I'm going a little off topic. I'll get my coat.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

You should go to the classic Vespa Scooter camp...

Fortunately for me then that I'm a bigamist when it comes to bikes... I love them in all brands, shapes and colors

If I was to buy a new bike I would not have bought a f650gs single cylinder thumper today (Sertao/Dakar). My biggest issue with the bike is that it is too heavy for its category. There are of course heavier 650s with even lower power to weight ratio and that is less capable both on and off the tarmmac, but there are also lighter and options among the +600cc. Fuel economy on the dakar (especially the twin spark) is great, but fuel economy has never been a big deciscion maker for me... but range is, atleast to a certain extent. Here the Tenere for instance is far superior to the bimmer.

Even though the Tenere for instance doesn't have as much grunt, has an ancient powerplant, is less comfortable cruising on tarmac, it is still more nimble and capable offroad... and it looks way better than most bikes out there in this category... and it is tried and tested technology, it has superior reliability, and service intervals that will make most other bike owners envious. The Bimmer's reliability or service intervals can't compare, not even close... of course it can't, it ain't Japanese... but neither is the KTM, which many swear by as the most capable bikes for the rough stuff. But like I said, my bike has never let me down in the 50k kms of hell that I've put it through. It's had some issues, true, but nothing that I have not been prepared for and been able to handle by myself. I beat the crap out of it, and then give it lots of TLC. I ride with spares such as a fuel pump repair kit, and some other stuff, and don't depend on anyone but myself to fix it.

However, if I was to choose for instance between a new Tenere and a Sertao, I would have gone for the Tenere, mostly due to reliability issues (as the sertao is rumoured to be of lesser quality than its predecessor the Dakar). But buying used, the Dakar went out of production in 2007, so you can't really compare as the latest Tenere is newer and hence can't be found within as low a price range as a used Dakar. But a Yamaha xt600e or older tenere can, and even cheaper, and is much lighter and more capable offroad and offer great reliability than both the Dakar and the newer Tenere... but can't compare on the Tarmac. The Dominator can be had cheap, but it is a tired dog. The Africa twin, the Transalp or any of The Super Teneres are super heavy. A KTM service intervals can make you cringe.. Suzukis in my opinion is more like a Yamaha (on comparable models), but more like it's little sister who only allmost can go head to head (but that's just me). Kawas I know nothing about - few buy them arround here, but I see they are popular with the Americans... many who wish they could get their hands on the Yamahas that we can here in Europe (at least that is the impression I get on advrider.com). I guess Yamaha's legacy from the XTs and Teneres of the past are still selling a lot of bikes... but to be honest, with that legacy and the expectations towards the brand, the new Tenere is an utter disapointment (too heavy, too little grunt).

So, to sum up... it is all about compromise - a bimmer might be right for you, it might not. An older Yamaha XT of some sort for instance might offer superior value for money compared to a Dakar, but the Dakar is a better road bike... better road bike than most one cylinder 650cc dual sport thumpers that has ever existed, and still is. And, that is why it to a great extent has so many sworn fans. My impression though is that there is a lot of people who don't like the bimmers because they have a stereotypical image of their owners that they don't approve of (if you said you would be buying a Ural or a Royal Enfield bullet, I'm sure the comments and warnings would be quite more lenient towards their owners). And to be frank, I can understand the antagonism to a certain extent. Bimmers are at the top of the price range, with many customers with bigger wallets than knowledge/experience about bikes, or knowledge and expereince in wrenching or overlanding (much like novice skiers or bicyclists that buy the most expensive things that can be had). The bimmerowners meet a lot of resistance, and many unjustifably so... and many feel that they have to justify their purchase by trying to sell their choice to everyone and refuse to admit its short comings. Well, now with the Dakar aging, and with many riders picking them up quite cheap - you find a different client base than before, some that are maybe a little more "honest" as well as "knowledgeable".

The bimmer is a bit pricey compared to most other options, but if you can make a good deal on a good specimen, then you'r not cracy for choosing it. I'm sure you'll be quite happy with it if a 600cc+ dual sport is the right category bike for you.

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Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Out of a lot of bikes I've had this thing has been outstanding...yes I've done some money on it sorting a few things out,but I think in 30 years time are any of these newer bikes till going to running?....not if they are anything like the newer generation of bloody cars..

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Software updates and adaption values...the same crappy route as lots of he cars now.....hopeless the lot of the things..it was possible 20 years ago to make a fuel injected vehicle that didnt realy give any trouble,but apparently its much more environmentally friendly to be driving around in newer vehicles.....which now are ****ed in 4 or 5 years and need melting down to make new stuff..
Everyday there's huge container ships trundling up and down English Channel here full of Chinese shit that may have been better just chucked overboard before setting off even...bloody hell I might find an f800 engine washed up on the beach...ha

Simple bikes are simple to maintain and repair, and they don't "argue" with the rider if some simple sensor tells the bike that something is not optimal. Still, I think there is an over driven fear of electronics. Further, the electronics do not only provide improved performance and fuel economy, but it also reduces service intervals and improves the longevity and reliability of the bike, and in many instances makes fault finding child's play... if you have the diagnostic tools, don't approach electronics like it was voodoo, and think of electronic parts as any other part which can be replaced.

For the Dakar, a diagnostic tool is not very expensive: The Home of GS-911 — HEX Code and using it is easy and can save a novice mechanic hours of fault searching. Even if an OEM sensor or relay should no longer be available in the market place, there are options from other bikes. Should the brains of the bike go up in smoke, and OEM parts are no longer available, then you should be able to find a provider who has mapped the software and can provide an aftermarket part that does not only work, but that probably works better than the original. There are options such as booster plugs, etc, for the Dakar which takes reliability and smoother performance to a whole other level. As long as there are many specimens of the bike in the market place, there will always exist parts... like any other non-electronic bikes. And, even if the bike should turn into a rear classic, then there will be companies out there that can custom make most of what you need.

Electronic parts can be carried as a spare like any other spare.

My general opinion is that newer bikes are better than older bikes in just about every aspect except for complexity... the very complexity that makes the rest so much better. I love turning my wrench on my 50 year old bikes, but fret not doing the same to my Dakar... it is all about ones mindset.

Still, it is also my general opinion that there are more incompetent "professional" mechanics out there than competent ones. Any overlander should get to know their bike inside and carry out all their own services and repairs. It may be a bit scary and difficult the first few times, and take ages with much disruptive research. The learning curve might be steep... but not very long... you only have to learn your own bike. For me, even washing the bike is a ritual done thoroughly inside and out by sponge and brush... it allows me to inspect every bolt, learn every part, and get to know the bike and fix things early before they become a serious problem to contend with. I'm by no means an expert and have found that I'm able to sort out things where the mechanics at certified dealers have given up. The f650.com community has far more knowledge than any single mechanic, and it is all available at your fingertips.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Great post and comments!
I'm also a big proponent of cleaning my bike. I've discovered so many little faults this way. Caught them before they broke, fell off or wore down. I even do this on tour. Sometimes you're tired, don't feel like it ... but it is, IMO, good practice for touring travelers. Can save a lot of headaches down the road.

You've hit on a really key part of the responsibility of owning a modern bike.
You have to put in the work to learn that bike, carry tools required and try to do as much basic maintenance as you can ... yourself.

Problem is, we see WAY TOO MANY noobs out there on fancy BMW's who ...
(I guess??) are a bit lazy or think they can't possibly learn enough to be of any use. So many go straight to the BMW dealer ... and often times for the most minor and stupid things.

Take this ride report for example:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-quit-my-65590

It's a great report, good pics and a fun couple ... but they've been to every BMW in S. America so far ... some more than once. Most times they go for basic service (oil change tire change, hang nails cut) or very minor problems they could have figured out themselves if they had the diagnostic computer or took the time to dig into it.

For many years these trick analytic devices were not available, only option to diagnose bike's computer was to go to the BMW dealer and hook up their proprietary BMW ONLY computer. Now, thankfully, the aftermarket has stepped up and provided affordable tools to help read codes and such.

I've done over 200,000 miles touring round on F.I. bikes ... going back to year 2000 and my VFR800. I've had very few problems ... ever. But I did my homework, took time to learn everything I could on each bike. It's work ... but as you say ... it's just your bike ... not a fleet of bikes.

The internet is a god send as the forums often have owners who have answers to issues on specific bikes. I still use the DR650 and Tiger forums ... and learn something new just about every time I visit. Big ups!

There is something out there for everyone.
BMW RS Owners Club - FAQ: Board FAQ

Or, such as the Triumph RAT.

As for the HU, it is very skewed toward a few models of particular manufacturers, many of which are no longer available as new machines within the EU except as personal imports (at a cost); no breadth basically.

__________________
Dave

Im surprised no one mentioned the battery. Make sure you change the standard Dakar battery, which leaks in an off, to a dry cell. You don't want to get stuck with a dry battery and acid leaked out.

The front suspension is quite soft and dives especially when braking. The rear is also a bit soft for luggage. It can eat rear shocks if the triple linkage is worn. So best to upgrade that as well.

This is true ... I didn't mention these issues as don't want to be perceived as "piling" on the poor Dakar.

It amazed me that BMW continued to use a wet, non-sealed battery for so many years after EVERYONE had switched over to sealed, MF batteries. These batteries caused serious problems for uneducated owners for YEARS!

The other very common issue with F650/Dakar is that the R/R over charges ... this quickly COOKS batteries. I've seen the ugly results of this in person, leaking batteries on these bikes ... not from crashing ... but from being BOILED OUT from overcharging.

It's also known that the main bolt holding the shock can BEND. This puts everything out of alignment ... ruining the low budget WP shock they put in there. Fairly common, well documented problem as well.
There are more issues.

Educated owners have long ago switched to sealed batteries and keep an eye on voltage output of R/R. Most replace the shock bolt with a stronger Stainless one with a higher rating. A better shock really helps the bike a lot.
The guy I rode with in Utah was a BMW dealer mechanic and had made ALL these changes on his bike ... and about 100 other things. It was a VERY nice bike. I loved riding it ... just the weight put me off riding off road.


Not a good shot, but best I have. Note the custom tool kit/bash plate.
Great bike but about 45 kgs. heavier than my DR650. Full Dakar dash set up,
GPS and all the toys. Nice on the highway for a single!

Well, I'm a fairly new rider (1,5 yrs on a bike) and on my way to Japan (from Belgium) with a Dakar (2002). I like the bike a lot, handles great on long distance at (for me ideal) 100km/hr, looks good, no need for larger tanks (range is easy 400km without extra fuel), and with the right mods (centre stand etc) will, IMHO, take you almost anywhere...
But it is true, the bike is very heavy for off road.. I weigh only 65kg myself and handling this bike (even in a parking lot, pushing it back a bit uphill) becomes problematic sometimes..
7000km in 20 days now and my water pump looses a drop once in a while I came prepared though and rerouted the oil line already.. but it is true: you need to be a hands-on person with some (not a lot) mechanical insight (and a spare pump or two ..
Take care
A.

Sounds like you've got things well sorted! You'll be fine. Going off road will take some adjustment and learning for you. It will get easier as you go. I also recommend looking after the basics ... as you would do with ANY bike ...
1. good chain and sprockets
2. good fresh tires and spare tubes (tools for changing/repairing)
3. good fresh battery with TIGHT connections.
4. bark busters on bars to protect all controls ... and your hands!
5. good tool kit!
6. whatever spare parts you need. Get them .. before you leave the EU!

Best of luck! Safe travels!

Youre kidding right?

You are still getting 80%+ of people saying whatever brand of bike they ride is "the best" and other brands suck. Thats not very conclusive evidence of objectivity.

In reality, the OP is asking if the bike is a reasonable choice to go to Mongolia and back. Statistics I have previously compiled for travel to that area of the world from Europe show that BMWs are more than twice as likely to be the brand people make those trips on than any other brand in the market.

The F650 is probably one of the top 5 models of bikes (out of 100s) travelling from Europe to Mongolia. Probably even top 3

So on balance, I would suggest it is a reasonable choice.

Is it the best choice? Well we will all have different opinions on what the best choice will be. The best choice is very subjective and very specific to the individual riders tastes. But is it a reasonable choice? Absolutely.

Would it in the worlds of the OP, be "good enough" to do the trip from Euopre to Mongolia and back. Of course. It does that same trip more than just about any other bike.

__________________

I never said it was perfect

And I am a firm believe that people mostly push their own brands on other people.

However,

Asking on UKGSER "Are BMW's good to travel on" will be far less subjective though. Those guys have hairy palms every time BMW release a new brochure.

Asking on Triumph forums "Should I take my explorer touring" will only be met by "Yes, it's the best bike ever" etc.

As a non-brand supported/sponered forum, the Hubb is pretty good for a wide range of opinions.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Just because its popular doesn't make it good. McDonalds is popular but I wouldn't eat there.

In practice what is 'best' bike also varies by the individual. Like for a short person, the Dakar is tall and would be difficult to handle.

It depends on the ratio of road to gravel and the technical condition of the gravel. If your trip includes a lot of tar, a small heavily laden bike is not the 'best'. Rather a larger bike and just take it easy on the gravel.

Maybe people say the bike they ride is the best because they bought it because they thought it was best? And now owning it, it meets their needs? I wouldn't say any of bikes is 'best'. Each is more suited for a type of riding I do. But not maybe for your type of riding.

I cant say any bike is kak and I wouldn't buy it or ride it. Except maybe a Harley has it has zero application for the type of riding I like to do and holds zero appeal to me. Sports bikes would come second. Im not into track riding, almost always carry luggage even when commuting, it is poor for visibility when filtering in traffic commuting, and is uncomfortable for distance. Doesn't mean a CBR is a kak bike.

Well, to be fair, the GS is a great bike to travel on. I own one myself. Unless your trip includes sand or mud or corrugation. Then I will tell you what a kak bike it is

Im taking my son pillion on a 3000 km trip next week. It is mid winter. Because I have a pillion and luggage for 2 including cold weather clothing, the trip is largely 80% tar. The GS is the best bike for this trip. Comfort, wind protection, handles a pillion easy with little impact on handling, can pillion on gravel, and your arse will survive the trip.

Maybe those UK GSers travel largely tar across Europe. So yes their bike is ideal and eats up distance in comfort.