Yep, there are better forums about BMW products.

__________________
Dave

Seriously, the bimmer is a good and capable bike, and if you like it - go ahead. Where the competition might be 40/60 road vs offroad (like a KTM), the bimmer is 60/40 road/offorad, and might be a better option for some. And, it is reliable enough for most. But as with any bike model, there are lemons, so make sure you buy something solid and give it a test spin. If anything feels even remotely out of tune, turn away... the Dakar is aging, and it is fairly high tech. They are easy to work on though, and easy to fix and service. Only thing to keep in mind though, the lemons in a bimmer might be a little more incomprehendable than the lemons found in some other bikes... like when I struggled with idling/stalling and found that the culprit was a poor adjustment of the clutch cable, and not what the intuitions of every other mechanic and Dakar owner had (it was a very long list of possible culprits). On this note, the f650.com site is probably the best resource site I have seen on any bike.

But riding a wr250r with a light pack is like handling a bicycle... it doesn't get any easier than this, road or offroad. And because it is so simple and bullet proof, you will find that you carry less tools and spares than with any other bike (less space, weight, clutter and expenditures). A 600+++ of any make, not so much. If you think a 250 sounds weak, give it a spin - you will be surprised, I promise... it's got plenty of grunt. It's not the bike of choice for highway riding, but who wants to spend much time doing that anyways? Also, weight and size really matters. A simple thing such as backing up a Dakar if the inclination or surface is slightly against your favour might be impossible if your are even remotely vertically challenged or lack the muscle. Picking up a fallen bike, getting a bike on its centerstand, getting into the saddle, pushing the bike, getting the bike onto a flatbed... everything gets much more difficult for every centimeter of additional height or width, for every kilogram. With a heavy bike you need to put much more effort into planning ahead when riding, with a light one you disconnect your brain.

Riding the Dakar, with panniers, at speeds above 110 km/h is very tiresome. I would say that 120 is your max cruising speed, though you can press it to 130 before you feel that it gets too unstable. But with any bike with a limited wind screen and the upright riding position, anything above 80 km/h isn't too enjoyable for long periods of time anyways. I once rode the Dakar 2000+ kms in two sixteen hour days... it was gruelling. I wish I rode my beloved Vespa crusing at 70kmh and spent another day...

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

All good comments on the WR250R. I was impressed from the short rides I've done on the WR250R. Power is good for a 250. A great travel bike for much of the world. But it's not perfect and there have been several mechanical issue reports on ADV Rider WR250R thread. But if one can fit on the little bike ... and can get all your stuff on it ... then it's great!
More and more riders are taking off on these bikes.

On 600's for long days at Speed
Guess it depends what you are used to ... and if you know how to set up a bike. I've ridden my DR650 with a Dakar riding friend through Utah.
We cruise all day at 75 to 80mph. (about 130 kms.) Speed limit in these areas is 70 mph. No instability from either my DR650 or his Dakar. This is our normal cruising speed ... at around 95 mph, my DR has just the slightest weave. Tires make a difference for stability.

We have big distances in US, so maybe we are used to riding long & far at high speed? I've ridden 1000 mile days on my DR650, also done 400 mile days ... 4 in a row. Average speed about 75 to 80 mph. At this speed my DR is smooth and comfortable. Rubber mounted Bars and foot pegs help.

NO SHIELD or Fairing ... I prefer it naked ... generally quieter with NO wind buffeting. Quality Shoei helmet and good ear plugs A MUST.

But I'm used to this long distance on the DR, been doing long rides for years ... 3 or 4 day rides once or twice a month with riding groups. 10 months of the year.


Small riding group to Moab, Utah from California .. and back. About 1200 miles each way ... plus a 1000 miles off road around Moab area.

See tricked out Dakar on the right. And yes, the KLR was right with us the entire ride. The DR and Dakar were very even in a drag race ... but the Dakar had a higher top speed. 105 mph. DR650, around 100 mph top.
MPG= Dakar: 60 MPG .... DR650: 45 MPG KLR: 42 MPG KTM 950: 32 MPG

I've never understood why anyone would ask for impartial advice about a BMW on a BMW specific forum. Or any other brand for that matter.

BMW owners are the WORST for admitting fault with their machines. I see it everyday.

This is why the hubb is great. You get (almost) non-bias advice.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

My F650 water pump went in Morocco. Limped out into Spain which warped the head then suffered at the hands of BMW Malaga until the RAC got me and the bike home. I shall not attempt impartiality.


Get a Ural or Chinese 125 and spend the difference on good walking boots!


Andy

You can't go wrong with a late 90's , early 2000's Japanese Enduro bike.

Their engines are usually 10-15 years old in foundation and they have had all their niggles well worked out of them. They have also been 'somewhat' modernised and updated. You'd have to be very unlucky or somewhat stupid to grind to a halt on one of those.

Then again.. We're back to that balance again.

If you want reliability, you usually HAVE TO sacrifice power and comfort. They don't really go together. The balance always tips one side or another.


If WW3 ever comes about and we're roaming around like Mad Max; you sure as hell won't see any BMW's, Multistradas and Triumph Explorers patrolling the streets with machine guns on them. They'll be relics. Failing as soon as the local dealers can't reset their adaptation values and fixing software fault after software fault.

The cool kids will be zipping around on Honda Dominators and old XT's... Probably with busty tanned Brazilian chicks on the back in their leather bikinis gripping a machete between their teeth.

I think I'm going a little off topic. I'll get my coat.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Im surprised no one mentioned the battery. Make sure you change the standard Dakar battery, which leaks in an off, to a dry cell. You don't want to get stuck with a dry battery and acid leaked out.

The front suspension is quite soft and dives especially when braking. The rear is also a bit soft for luggage. It can eat rear shocks if the triple linkage is worn. So best to upgrade that as well.

This is true ... I didn't mention these issues as don't want to be perceived as "piling" on the poor Dakar.

It amazed me that BMW continued to use a wet, non-sealed battery for so many years after EVERYONE had switched over to sealed, MF batteries. These batteries caused serious problems for uneducated owners for YEARS!

The other very common issue with F650/Dakar is that the R/R over charges ... this quickly COOKS batteries. I've seen the ugly results of this in person, leaking batteries on these bikes ... not from crashing ... but from being BOILED OUT from overcharging.

It's also known that the main bolt holding the shock can BEND. This puts everything out of alignment ... ruining the low budget WP shock they put in there. Fairly common, well documented problem as well.
There are more issues.

Educated owners have long ago switched to sealed batteries and keep an eye on voltage output of R/R. Most replace the shock bolt with a stronger Stainless one with a higher rating. A better shock really helps the bike a lot.
The guy I rode with in Utah was a BMW dealer mechanic and had made ALL these changes on his bike ... and about 100 other things. It was a VERY nice bike. I loved riding it ... just the weight put me off riding off road.


Not a good shot, but best I have. Note the custom tool kit/bash plate.
Great bike but about 45 kgs. heavier than my DR650. Full Dakar dash set up,
GPS and all the toys. Nice on the highway for a single!

Well, I'm a fairly new rider (1,5 yrs on a bike) and on my way to Japan (from Belgium) with a Dakar (2002). I like the bike a lot, handles great on long distance at (for me ideal) 100km/hr, looks good, no need for larger tanks (range is easy 400km without extra fuel), and with the right mods (centre stand etc) will, IMHO, take you almost anywhere...
But it is true, the bike is very heavy for off road.. I weigh only 65kg myself and handling this bike (even in a parking lot, pushing it back a bit uphill) becomes problematic sometimes..
7000km in 20 days now and my water pump looses a drop once in a while I came prepared though and rerouted the oil line already.. but it is true: you need to be a hands-on person with some (not a lot) mechanical insight (and a spare pump or two ..
Take care
A.

Sounds like you've got things well sorted! You'll be fine. Going off road will take some adjustment and learning for you. It will get easier as you go. I also recommend looking after the basics ... as you would do with ANY bike ...
1. good chain and sprockets
2. good fresh tires and spare tubes (tools for changing/repairing)
3. good fresh battery with TIGHT connections.
4. bark busters on bars to protect all controls ... and your hands!
5. good tool kit!
6. whatever spare parts you need. Get them .. before you leave the EU!

Best of luck! Safe travels!

I did 191,500km on an old F650, including quite a bit offroad in Europe and North, Central and Sth America with the bike loaded normally (panniers and tankbag). My next choice was and is the Dakar model. Am very happy with it, would definitely choose the bike for a RTW. Reliable, ABS can be switched off, great and easy handling, bike weight okay, two up possible onroad, fuel economy great etc.
Cheers, Dirk

I actually own and ride the hell out of a G650GS Sertao. It is almost identical to the Dakars. I have ridden 50,000 adventure miles in the last 2 years on this bike. I also rode 30,000 miles on a G650GS the year before. I have had one component failure, the cooling fan. Unfortunately it was in the outback of Brazil and cost me 10 days to get a spare. I probably could have fixed it by jury rigging a computer fan but didn't. other than oil changes I've never put a drop of oil in it.
The suspension, especially in front is kind of wobbly. After my last trip to South America I put a new Touratech shock/spring in the rear and emulators and spring in front. Now this bike handles very well in everything. It probably needs a clutch now but I'm sure the engine is fine. My riding style is around 50/50 with some very long off road stints on occasion. the bike still looks great whenever I bother to clean it. Like others have said I wouldn't over-load it but with the touratech rear spring you could. I have even gone 2 up on the stock unit and I weigh 255lbs.
One small repair in 80,000 miles and only normal maintenance.

You should go to the classic Vespa Scooter camp...

Fortunately for me then that I'm a bigamist when it comes to bikes... I love them in all brands, shapes and colors

If I was to buy a new bike I would not have bought a f650gs single cylinder thumper today (Sertao/Dakar). My biggest issue with the bike is that it is too heavy for its category. There are of course heavier 650s with even lower power to weight ratio and that is less capable both on and off the tarmmac, but there are also lighter and options among the +600cc. Fuel economy on the dakar (especially the twin spark) is great, but fuel economy has never been a big deciscion maker for me... but range is, atleast to a certain extent. Here the Tenere for instance is far superior to the bimmer.

Even though the Tenere for instance doesn't have as much grunt, has an ancient powerplant, is less comfortable cruising on tarmac, it is still more nimble and capable offroad... and it looks way better than most bikes out there in this category... and it is tried and tested technology, it has superior reliability, and service intervals that will make most other bike owners envious. The Bimmer's reliability or service intervals can't compare, not even close... of course it can't, it ain't Japanese... but neither is the KTM, which many swear by as the most capable bikes for the rough stuff. But like I said, my bike has never let me down in the 50k kms of hell that I've put it through. It's had some issues, true, but nothing that I have not been prepared for and been able to handle by myself. I beat the crap out of it, and then give it lots of TLC. I ride with spares such as a fuel pump repair kit, and some other stuff, and don't depend on anyone but myself to fix it.

However, if I was to choose for instance between a new Tenere and a Sertao, I would have gone for the Tenere, mostly due to reliability issues (as the sertao is rumoured to be of lesser quality than its predecessor the Dakar). But buying used, the Dakar went out of production in 2007, so you can't really compare as the latest Tenere is newer and hence can't be found within as low a price range as a used Dakar. But a Yamaha xt600e or older tenere can, and even cheaper, and is much lighter and more capable offroad and offer great reliability than both the Dakar and the newer Tenere... but can't compare on the Tarmac. The Dominator can be had cheap, but it is a tired dog. The Africa twin, the Transalp or any of The Super Teneres are super heavy. A KTM service intervals can make you cringe.. Suzukis in my opinion is more like a Yamaha (on comparable models), but more like it's little sister who only allmost can go head to head (but that's just me). Kawas I know nothing about - few buy them arround here, but I see they are popular with the Americans... many who wish they could get their hands on the Yamahas that we can here in Europe (at least that is the impression I get on advrider.com). I guess Yamaha's legacy from the XTs and Teneres of the past are still selling a lot of bikes... but to be honest, with that legacy and the expectations towards the brand, the new Tenere is an utter disapointment (too heavy, too little grunt).

So, to sum up... it is all about compromise - a bimmer might be right for you, it might not. An older Yamaha XT of some sort for instance might offer superior value for money compared to a Dakar, but the Dakar is a better road bike... better road bike than most one cylinder 650cc dual sport thumpers that has ever existed, and still is. And, that is why it to a great extent has so many sworn fans. My impression though is that there is a lot of people who don't like the bimmers because they have a stereotypical image of their owners that they don't approve of (if you said you would be buying a Ural or a Royal Enfield bullet, I'm sure the comments and warnings would be quite more lenient towards their owners). And to be frank, I can understand the antagonism to a certain extent. Bimmers are at the top of the price range, with many customers with bigger wallets than knowledge/experience about bikes, or knowledge and expereince in wrenching or overlanding (much like novice skiers or bicyclists that buy the most expensive things that can be had). The bimmerowners meet a lot of resistance, and many unjustifably so... and many feel that they have to justify their purchase by trying to sell their choice to everyone and refuse to admit its short comings. Well, now with the Dakar aging, and with many riders picking them up quite cheap - you find a different client base than before, some that are maybe a little more "honest" as well as "knowledgeable".

The bimmer is a bit pricey compared to most other options, but if you can make a good deal on a good specimen, then you'r not cracy for choosing it. I'm sure you'll be quite happy with it if a 600cc+ dual sport is the right category bike for you.

__________________
Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

Out of a lot of bikes I've had this thing has been outstanding...yes I've done some money on it sorting a few things out,but I think in 30 years time are any of these newer bikes till going to running?....not if they are anything like the newer generation of bloody cars..

Attached Thumbnails

 

Software updates and adaption values...the same crappy route as lots of he cars now.....hopeless the lot of the things..it was possible 20 years ago to make a fuel injected vehicle that didnt realy give any trouble,but apparently its much more environmentally friendly to be driving around in newer vehicles.....which now are ****ed in 4 or 5 years and need melting down to make new stuff..
Everyday there's huge container ships trundling up and down English Channel here full of Chinese shit that may have been better just chucked overboard before setting off even...bloody hell I might find an f800 engine washed up on the beach...ha